post here when someone decides to run for president in 2016

[puniraptor]

More than 10% of the country pay a 10%+ effective FITR you rough ridin' troglodytes.

Only FICA tho still?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Also, I'm running for president.  My sole platform is to abolish fica so everyone who works doesn't have to keep paying for old people to go to the doctor every rough ridin' day and then to Walgreens to buy drugs. Instead, they get one free mickey mouse fishing pole each and a tiny shovel to dig up earthworms.

[puniraptor]

What party is that?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

10% would be glorious.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

what percentage of people in the US today pay higher than a ten percent effective federal tax rate.

This I think is only income tax and doesn't include FICA, but it looks like pretty much only the top 10% in income pay more than that.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-0

And the top 10% would include basically everyone who went to college and earned a useful degree? That's a lot of people.

I have an engineering degree and live in the bay area and I'm not in the top 10%

Damn. That seems like a very expensive place to live to not have a household income of at least $120k. Ts&Ps. Or are you single? I would think that a single person making around $75k (primarily wages) would also be paying an effective FIT rate of at least 10%, but can't find numbers on that.

[ednksu]

A flat 10% tax on everybody would be glorious.

In

unless you're poor

 

I know that it is obscene what I paid the fed govt last year.  Like a year's worth of college at a really good school.  Did I get that value back?  I don't feel like I did. 

Does it stop me from having what I want?  Nope.  Still earned that money, though, through hard work, time, etc.

Wow I usually appreciate what you're saying, but you might as well request a name change to C-N-S-Wildcts! with that attitude.  Did "I" get that value back?  Dollar for dollar, maybe not because you can't quantify crap like not using the fire department and police when you're house doesn't burn down or you don't get raped and murdered.  Also its good to see you didn't use the US military to defend your clan from marauding bands of ruffians. 

Guess what living in civil society is expensive.  Sorry that you get to reap all the benefits of living in the first world while having to pay for them. :(

[michigancat]

what percentage of people in the US today pay higher than a ten percent effective federal tax rate.

This I think is only income tax and doesn't include FICA, but it looks like pretty much only the top 10% in income pay more than that.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-0

And the top 10% would include basically everyone who went to college and earned a useful degree? That's a lot of people.

I have an engineering degree and live in the bay area and I'm not in the top 10%

Damn. That seems like a very expensive place to live to not have a household income of at least $120k. Ts&Ps.

it's not that hard

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

A flat 10% tax on everybody would be glorious.

In

unless you're poor

 

I know that it is obscene what I paid the fed govt last year.  Like a year's worth of college at a really good school.  Did I get that value back?  I don't feel like I did. 

Does it stop me from having what I want?  Nope.  Still earned that money, though, through hard work, time, etc.

Wow I usually appreciate what you're saying, but you might as well request a name change to C-N-S-Wildcts! with that attitude.  Did "I" get that value back?  Dollar for dollar, maybe not because you can't quantify crap like not using the fire department and police when you're house doesn't burn down or you don't get raped and murdered.  Also its good to see you didn't use the US military to defend your clan from marauding bands of ruffians. 

Guess what living in civil society is expensive.  Sorry that you get to reap all the benefits of living in the first world while having to pay for them. :(

Typical libtard strawman. CNS was not complaining about paying taxes - he was complaining about paying a much higher percentage of income taxes than other people, even though we all receive the same amount of benefit from all those services you list. (And I know what your next argument is going to be...) Meanwhile, the poor not only receive those same services - they receive much more in social welfare benefits, all while paying a significantly less, or in most cases negative, percentage of income tax.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

what percentage of people in the US today pay higher than a ten percent effective federal tax rate.

This I think is only income tax and doesn't include FICA, but it looks like pretty much only the top 10% in income pay more than that.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-0

And the top 10% would include basically everyone who went to college and earned a useful degree? That's a lot of people.

I have an engineering degree and live in the bay area and I'm not in the top 10%

Damn. That seems like a very expensive place to live to not have a household income of at least $120k. Ts&Ps.

it's not that hard

If you're single and don't have kids, then yeah. But again, a single filer is going to pay at least a 10% effective tax rate on a much lower AGI than a joint-filing household.

[michigancat]

what percentage of people in the US today pay higher than a ten percent effective federal tax rate.

This I think is only income tax and doesn't include FICA, but it looks like pretty much only the top 10% in income pay more than that.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-0

And the top 10% would include basically everyone who went to college and earned a useful degree? That's a lot of people.

I have an engineering degree and live in the bay area and I'm not in the top 10%

Damn. That seems like a very expensive place to live to not have a household income of at least $120k. Ts&Ps.

it's not that hard

If you're single and don't have kids, then yeah. But again, a single filer is going to pay at least a 10% effective tax rate on a much lower AGI than a joint-filing household.

I have two kids

[michigancat]

A flat 10% tax on everybody would be glorious.

In

unless you're poor

 

I know that it is obscene what I paid the fed govt last year.  Like a year's worth of college at a really good school.  Did I get that value back?  I don't feel like I did. 

Does it stop me from having what I want?  Nope.  Still earned that money, though, through hard work, time, etc.

Wow I usually appreciate what you're saying, but you might as well request a name change to C-N-S-Wildcts! with that attitude.  Did "I" get that value back?  Dollar for dollar, maybe not because you can't quantify crap like not using the fire department and police when you're house doesn't burn down or you don't get raped and murdered.  Also its good to see you didn't use the US military to defend your clan from marauding bands of ruffians. 

Guess what living in civil society is expensive.  Sorry that you get to reap all the benefits of living in the first world while having to pay for them. :(

Typical libtard strawman. CNS was not complaining about paying taxes - he was complaining about paying a much higher percentage of income taxes than other people, even though we all receive the same amount of benefit from all those services you list. (And I know what your next argument is going to be...) Meanwhile, the poor not only receive those same services - they receive much more in social welfare benefits, all while paying a significantly less, or in most cases negative, percentage of income tax.

People that don't receive those services still benefit from the fact that people are on those services.

You could also argue that CNS benefits far more from discretionary spending than those who make less than he does.

[CNS]

A flat 10% tax on everybody would be glorious.

In

unless you're poor

 

I know that it is obscene what I paid the fed govt last year.  Like a year's worth of college at a really good school.  Did I get that value back?  I don't feel like I did. 

Does it stop me from having what I want?  Nope.  Still earned that money, though, through hard work, time, etc.

Wow I usually appreciate what you're saying, but you might as well request a name change to C-N-S-Wildcts! with that attitude.  Did "I" get that value back?  Dollar for dollar, maybe not because you can't quantify crap like not using the fire department and police when you're house doesn't burn down or you don't get raped and murdered.  Also its good to see you didn't use the US military to defend your clan from marauding bands of ruffians. 

Guess what living in civil society is expensive.  Sorry that you get to reap all the benefits of living in the first world while having to pay for them. :(

Yeah, I get all that.  I really do.  However, I think there is an argument to be made against some of the cost of all that as well.  For example, should police have large enough budgets that allow them to purchase military grade surplus equipt, and I certainly don't think that we need the defense budget we currently have, just to hit a couple of your notes.

I also don't feel like it is too much to ask for something in return for aid given to those in need.  I have said it before, but a good example would be school attendance and performance above a certain threshold.  I don't feel like I am a monster for any of this.   

[CNS]

A flat 10% tax on everybody would be glorious.

In

unless you're poor

 

I know that it is obscene what I paid the fed govt last year.  Like a year's worth of college at a really good school.  Did I get that value back?  I don't feel like I did. 

Does it stop me from having what I want?  Nope.  Still earned that money, though, through hard work, time, etc.

Wow I usually appreciate what you're saying, but you might as well request a name change to C-N-S-Wildcts! with that attitude.  Did "I" get that value back?  Dollar for dollar, maybe not because you can't quantify crap like not using the fire department and police when you're house doesn't burn down or you don't get raped and murdered.  Also its good to see you didn't use the US military to defend your clan from marauding bands of ruffians. 

Guess what living in civil society is expensive.  Sorry that you get to reap all the benefits of living in the first world while having to pay for them. :(

Typical libtard strawman. CNS was not complaining about paying taxes - he was complaining about paying a much higher percentage of income taxes than other people, even though we all receive the same amount of benefit from all those services you list. (And I know what your next argument is going to be...) Meanwhile, the poor not only receive those same services - they receive much more in social welfare benefits, all while paying a significantly less, or in most cases negative, percentage of income tax.

People that don't receive those services still benefit from the fact that people are on those services.

You could also argue that CNS benefits far more from discretionary spending than those who make less than he does.

Maybe I do.  Give me some examples.

[Dugout DickStone]

Also, I'm running for president.  My sole platform is to abolish fica so everyone who works doesn't have to keep paying for old people to go to the doctor every rough ridin' day and then to Walgreens to buy drugs. Instead, they get one free mickey mouse fishing pole each and a tiny shovel to dig up earthworms.

I would vote for this.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

People that don't receive those services still benefit from the fact that people are on those services.

I agree that we all derive a benefit from providing a minimal safety net to the poor and, in particular, poor children. I disagree that we derive any additional benefit from the current bloated size and scope of those benefits. To the contrary, I believe there are a number of negative consequences such as lower productivity, social and familial fragmentation, and massive debt.

[michigancat]

Maybe I do.  Give me some examples.

Hard to say without knowing exactly how you live. Considering you live on 1+ acres, one likely example is that you benefit far more from federal highway dollars than your typical poor person. You also benefit more from our military, (by far our largest discretionary expense), securing oil out of the middle east, both in terms of direct travel and the cost of goods you buy.

I also don't know exactly what you do with construction, but there's a good chance federal dollars are trickling into your company either directly or indirectly. Perhaps you've built a store that accepts food stamps or an office for a company that works with the government, or maybe you've straight up worked on a federally funded project.

Note: not saying it adds up to more than what someone who pays less receives in social services, but you probably receive more benefits than you realize.

[CNS]

I think safety nets could be applied better and could provide an increase in benefit by society.  I think ed spending should go through the roof and that we should stop jailing ppl for so much little bullshit drug stuff.  Cut the budgets of prisons and law enforcement by stopping the war on drugs then make college much more affordable to many more ppl. 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I think safety nets could be applied better and could provide an increase in benefit by society.  I think ed spending should go through the roof and that we should stop jailing ppl for so much little bullshit drug stuff.  Cut the budgets of prisons and law enforcement by stopping the war on drugs then make college much more affordable to many more ppl.

Did you know that the State of Kansas currently spends 63% of its entire budget on education? It spends another 27% on "human services" (mostly welfare-type programs). That's 90% of state funds being spent on just those two categories. The remainder goes to public safety (6.3%), government administration (3.2%), transportation (0.3%), and ag & natural resources (0.3%).

[CNS]

We are talking feds, bro.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think safety nets could be applied better and could provide an increase in benefit by society.  I think ed spending should go through the roof and that we should stop jailing ppl for so much little bullshit drug stuff.  Cut the budgets of prisons and law enforcement by stopping the war on drugs then make college much more affordable to many more ppl.

Did you know that the State of Kansas currently spends 63% of its entire budget on education? It spends another 27% on "human services" (mostly welfare-type programs). That's 90% of state funds being spent on just those two categories. The remainder goes to public safety (6.3%), government administration (3.2%), transportation (0.3%), and ag & natural resources (0.3%).

Brownback would be a whole lot more popular among conservatives if he'd stop targeting the 63% line item and get to work on the 27%.

[sys]

AGI

i didn't realize how disingenuous using AGI was when this discussion popped up a few months ago, but since i just did my taxes, and they're fresh in my mind, i do now.  AGI excludes a ton of income.  Mine was probably in the neighborhood of 55-60% of my actual total compensation + investment income.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

AGI

i didn't realize how disingenuous using AGI was when this discussion popped up a few months ago, but since i just did my taxes, and they're fresh in my mind, i do now.  AGI excludes a ton of income.  Mine was probably in the neighborhood of 55-60% of my actual total compensation + investment income.

It's the data that's available, but I agree that true tax rate should simply be total tax divided by total income.

[wetwillie]

Turns out the percentage of filers paying at or below 10% effective tax rates was closer to 80% In 2010.  http://taxfoundation.org/blog/least-90-percent-americans-have-lower-income-tax-rate-romney

[sys]

It's the data that's available, but I agree that true tax rate should simply be total tax divided by total income.

that may be, but it's misleading when it's presented to an audience that doesn't realize how different agi and total income can be (which, i think is true of the general populace).

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Turns out the percentage of filers paying at or below 10% effective tax rates was closer to 80% In 2010.  http://taxfoundation.org/blog/least-90-percent-americans-have-lower-income-tax-rate-romney

Imagine the huge increase in revenue a 10% flat tax would bring.