Author Topic: The Civil War  (Read 20111 times)

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Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #200 on: September 09, 2014, 03:34:35 PM »
What if.....? Part 2 The North

   The social implications to a separate peace would have been in a word chaotic. Whereas the Abolitionist movement was a real political power in certain areas, it was in no way universal. In fact, many of the abolitionists were not enamored with the idea of living shoulder to shoulder with blacks. Lincoln himself was actually interested in the idea of returning freed slaves to Africa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Liberia Working class whites, especially immigrants, in the north were certainly opposed to large numbers of freedmen showing up and competing for work. In the aftermath of a “lost” war this feeling would have intensified. The ensuing social unrest in urban areas, and its fallout, would have long lasting negative effects. It is highly unlikely that the northern black population would have taken to this kindly, especially considering many thousands of them had taken up arms to free their families still in bondage. The resentment on both sides would have been considerable and surely would have resulted in multiple acts of brutality. The US government would have had to step into this chaos, and it is very unlikely that they would have favored the black population over the white in their interventions. Victorian age thinking did not see the blacks as any way equal to whites, and more than likely the Back To Africa movement would have picked up traction  and become official policy.
   Another question arises about the disposition of the thousands of runaway slaves the US Army had under its control in occupied territories throughout the south. While some US commanders were confirmed Abolitionists most were basically ambivalent about the black man. During the war runaways were welcomed by the US Army because it deprived the enemy of labor and at the same time gave the Army a thankful and motivated workforce which was happily exploited throughout the conflict. What would have happened to these former slaves as the Army pulled out? Chances are very good that they would have been left to their own devices with tragic results as Confederate troops reestablished control.
   I believe that the northern black population as a whole would have felt great pressure to either go to Africa or perhaps migrate west. The cost in lives would have been high either way they went because the black population at the time would not have generally had the resources they would have needed to ensure success.

So because some Northern studs were anti-slavery but still a little racist it makes the South's stance that it was ok to own another human validated? I dunno AU_Tigers I still think the non-slavers win this round.

USA 1
Confeds 0

False start penalty for you. I ain't done yet.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #201 on: September 09, 2014, 03:35:19 PM »
oh he's got more long ass paragraphs about why slavery was ok. can't wait.

Offline skycat

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #202 on: September 09, 2014, 03:38:04 PM »
oh he's got more long ass paragraphs about why slavery was ok. can't wait.

Shameful.

Offline Pete

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #203 on: September 09, 2014, 03:41:42 PM »
This thread is a doozy.

Offline chuckjames

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #204 on: September 09, 2014, 03:50:26 PM »

Offline damonismyhero

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #205 on: September 09, 2014, 03:58:00 PM »
oh he's got more long ass paragraphs about why slavery was ok. can't wait.

Was?

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #206 on: September 09, 2014, 04:04:03 PM »
What if.....? Part 3 The South

   I have heard many fellow southerners over the years say something to the effect that “if the south had won, slavery would have eventually died out on its own.” I absolutely disagree with that – it would have actually become worse for the black man than it was before. Slave life on large plantations has been well documented in its brutality. The majority of slaves in the south, however, lived a somewhat better existence than those on the large plantations but they were still slaves and obviously totally subject to their owners' whims. In a post war south, these conditions would undoubtedly worsened for a variety of reasons.
   The southern infrastructure was nearly in ruins, displaced people both white and black littered the country, courthouses and records were gone, and malnutrition and disease were rampant. It is unlikely that the CSA government would have made a serious effort to return slaves to their owners, at least not initially. It is more likely that the government would have formed labor brigades out of the slaves that were not currently in their owners' control, and would have used them of WPA style projects to repair the country. One must not forget that due to the state of the infrastructure that it was impossible to transport supplies and food in any significant amount so the life expectancy in these labor brigades would have been very short.
   The Confederacy would have had staked itself nearly to ruin on the institution of slavery and would have viewed their “victory” as a validation of the practice and so would have energetically worked to reassert control over the black population. I imagine the black population would have a variety of reactions to this; despair, anger, and a sense of betrayal so the reassertion of control would certainly have been bloody.
   Over the ensuing years the south would feel mounting international pressure to eliminate slavery but would resist it strongly. Their national pride, as well as the entrenched social hierarchy, would demand it. I suppose it is possible that the invention of the internal combustion engine many years later would have reduced the south's “need” to rely on forced labor, but the institution would have lived on for a long time, if for no other reason than for the nature the nation's birth.

One final part is coming.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #207 on: September 09, 2014, 04:10:36 PM »
In many southern circles, the sec stands for slavery enthusiasts conference  :buh-bye:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #208 on: September 09, 2014, 04:13:37 PM »
What if.....? Part 4

   Our history, post “Civil War”, has often been ugly, but it would have been much much worse had the south won their independence. It is almost certain that the resulting nations in North America would have had multiple wars over the years, and also almost certainly the two resulting nations would have broken up further in ensuing years. The precedent would have been set after all.
   European countries would have befriended the infant CSA as a counter to the growing commercial and military might of the US, and the weakened CSA would have had no choice but to accept, thereby probably spawning altogether different “World Wars.”
   The black man would have suffered the most by far as he was ground by geopolitical forces and heightened racial prejudices. 
   Without a doubt the entire world is better for the south having lost.

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #209 on: September 09, 2014, 04:14:47 PM »
I enjoyed that intellectual exercise (masturbation?). Thanks for giving me the idea guys.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #210 on: September 09, 2014, 04:15:32 PM »
You could've just said "The entire world is better for the south having lost" without all that other stuff and we'd all have been fine with it.

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #211 on: September 09, 2014, 04:16:47 PM »
Rallied the article by admitting the south is trash and should be happy we dominated them.

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #212 on: September 09, 2014, 04:17:42 PM »
You could've just said "The entire world is better for the south having lost" without all that other stuff and we'd all have been fine with it.

Yeah, but I enjoyed doing that. It was actually kinda fun.

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #213 on: September 09, 2014, 04:24:58 PM »
You could've just said "The entire world is better for the south having lost" without all that other stuff and we'd all have been fine with it.

Yeah, but I enjoyed doing that. It was actually kinda fun.

The truth set him free

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #214 on: September 09, 2014, 04:30:05 PM »
You could've just said "The entire world is better for the south having lost" without all that other stuff and we'd all have been fine with it.

Yeah, but I enjoyed doing that. It was actually kinda fun.

The truth set him free

 :eek:

Offline skycat

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #215 on: September 09, 2014, 04:36:16 PM »
What if.....? Part 4

   Our history, post “Civil War”, has often been ugly, but it would have been much much worse had the south won their independence. It is almost certain that the resulting nations in North America would have had multiple wars over the years, and also almost certainly the two resulting nations would have broken up further in ensuing years. The precedent would have been set after all.
   European countries would have befriended the infant CSA as a counter to the growing commercial and military might of the US, and the weakened CSA would have had no choice but to accept, thereby probably spawning altogether different “World Wars.”
   The black man would have suffered the most by far as he was ground by geopolitical forces and heightened racial prejudices. 
   Without a doubt the entire world is better for the south having lost.

Blah blah, all I heard was "Slavery was awesome, the South shall rise again, Jeff Gordon sucks," blah blah.

Just kidding, I liked it and am glad you admit the South was heinous. Still disappointed you didn't admit to Northerners' superior hygiene.

Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #216 on: September 09, 2014, 04:38:10 PM »
What if.....? Part 4

   Our history, post “Civil War”, has often been ugly, but it would have been much much worse had the south won their independence. It is almost certain that the resulting nations in North America would have had multiple wars over the years, and also almost certainly the two resulting nations would have broken up further in ensuing years. The precedent would have been set after all.
   European countries would have befriended the infant CSA as a counter to the growing commercial and military might of the US, and the weakened CSA would have had no choice but to accept, thereby probably spawning altogether different “World Wars.”
   The black man would have suffered the most by far as he was ground by geopolitical forces and heightened racial prejudices. 
   Without a doubt the entire world is better for the south having lost.

Blah blah, all I heard was "Slavery was awesome, the South shall rise again, Jeff Gordon sucks," blah blah.

Just kidding, I liked it and am glad you admit the South was heinous. Still disappointed you didn't admit to Northerners' superior hygiene.

NEVER! I have lived among your stanky asses. I know better.

Offline skycat

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #217 on: September 09, 2014, 04:49:36 PM »
What if.....? Part 4

   Our history, post “Civil War”, has often been ugly, but it would have been much much worse had the south won their independence. It is almost certain that the resulting nations in North America would have had multiple wars over the years, and also almost certainly the two resulting nations would have broken up further in ensuing years. The precedent would have been set after all.
   European countries would have befriended the infant CSA as a counter to the growing commercial and military might of the US, and the weakened CSA would have had no choice but to accept, thereby probably spawning altogether different “World Wars.”
   The black man would have suffered the most by far as he was ground by geopolitical forces and heightened racial prejudices. 
   Without a doubt the entire world is better for the south having lost.

Blah blah, all I heard was "Slavery was awesome, the South shall rise again, Jeff Gordon sucks," blah blah.

Just kidding, I liked it and am glad you admit the South was heinous. Still disappointed you didn't admit to Northerners' superior hygiene.

NEVER! I have lived among your stanky asses. I know better.



VS



Ew. I can almost smell them through the picture.

Offline Gooch

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #218 on: September 09, 2014, 04:54:22 PM »
No wonder they lost the war we were fighting a bunch of hobos.

Offline skycat

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #219 on: September 09, 2014, 04:57:36 PM »
MAN, I bet these Union guys smelled fresh, even in harsh conditions. So clean shaven. Patriotism, brotherhood, hygiene!


Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #220 on: September 09, 2014, 05:05:09 PM »
MAN, I bet these Union guys smelled fresh, even in harsh conditions. So clean shaven. Patriotism, brotherhood, hygiene!



This feller looks pretty fresh.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Offline Michiganisstillgood

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #221 on: September 09, 2014, 09:03:03 PM »
So, this guy carries around a gun in order to shoot young black guys, and in his mind THEY'RE the "thugs"?

 :lol:


Offline AU_Tigers

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #222 on: September 09, 2014, 09:22:36 PM »
So, this guy carries around a gun in order to shoot young black guys, and in his mind THEY'RE the "thugs"?

 :lol:

That's a stretch.

Offline Pete

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #223 on: September 09, 2014, 09:41:17 PM »
Great thread guys.  I think we all learned quite a bit.  My two "takeaways" are 1) My fantasies about the South being a separate country away from the United States may actually not be as great as I thought, and 2) Pretty sure it would still be fair to good for the South be a separate country away from the United States.

Everyone take the night off.

Offline star seed 7

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Re: The Civil War
« Reply #224 on: September 09, 2014, 09:42:29 PM »
what's so civil about war anyway, right pete?
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite