Game of Thrones thread for people who enjoy both the show and books

[Mr Bread]

She's a prostitute.  She was never Tyrion's beyond his ability to pay her more than someone else was willing to.  He had the attachment. 

[mocat]

She's a prostitute.  She was never Tyrion's beyond his ability to pay her more than someone else was willing to.  He had the attachment. 

jfc margaery haven't you ever seen Pretty Woman?

[Mr Bread]

She's a prostitute.  She was never Tyrion's beyond his ability to pay her more than someone else was willing to.  He had the attachment. 

jfc margaery haven't you ever seen Pretty Woman?

Well look who it is. 

[Panjandrum]

So do you guys think that Shae turned against Tyrion just recently (i.e. when he sent her away and/or when Cersei bought her off/threatened her)? When reading the books, I had the impression that she was being directed by Tywin all along.

there was a scene a while back in the show where she and Varys had a discussion and it was implied he had been paying her to stay with Tyrion

Eh, this fits the nice narrative where Tyrion looks at her during the trial, says, "Shae...no," and she turns back to him and says that she's a whore.

I'm going to go with this from now on.

[Mrs. Gooch]

She's a prostitute.  She was never Tyrion's beyond his ability to pay her more than someone else was willing to.  He had the attachment.

Well yeah, she was always in it because it benefited her. The question is when did she start taking orders from Tywin? Like, did Tywin send her in as a camp follower because he knew Tyrion had a weakness for whores and he wanted to have a backup plan of how to control Tyrion? Or after she came to King's Landing, then Tywin turned her? Or after Joffery was murdered then they threatened her into testifying?

I am leaning toward the second option, but could be the first.

[Panjandrum]

Shae is going to redeem herself. Cersei obviously ran her down (what happened to Bronn?) and she's doing what she needs to do to live. Tyrion still loves her and threw in the whore insult at the end of the trial for her protection. The two will live happily ever after.

 

dude is such a rough ridin' moron

Wow.  This is just...wow.

Well, this is just going to steal the breath right out of him.

[Mr Bread]

She's a prostitute.  She was never Tyrion's beyond his ability to pay her more than someone else was willing to.  He had the attachment.

Well yeah, she was always in it because it benefited her. The question is when did she start taking orders from Tywin? Like, did Tywin send her in as a camp follower because he knew Tyrion had a weakness for whores and he wanted to have a backup plan of how to control Tyrion? Or after she came to King's Landing, then Tywin turned her? Or after Joffery was murdered then they threatened her into testifying?

I am leaning toward the second option, but could be the first.

I don't think she was turned until Joffrey died and Cersei paid her to testify against Tyrion.  She got a Bronn type offer from Cersei iirc.    I don't think anyone needed to threaten her.  Tyrion was in trouble one way or the other and wouldn't be paying her any longer.  She needed a new meal ticket.  Cersei offered her an opportunity to profit.  Tywin was just having sex with a whore that was at hand imo.    Nothing more elaborate than that.  He always did with Tyrion as he pleased.  He didn't need leverage to eff him over or treat him like crap.  Cersei did. 

[Mr Bread]

During Tyrion's trial, Shae betrays Tyrion by lying that he conspired with Sansa to murder King Joffrey and Lord Tywin, revealing the full and intimate details of their affair - including her pet name for him as her "Giant of Lannister"; in exchange for her testimony Cersei Lannister offered her a manse in King's Landing and a knight to wed.

[Mrs. Gooch]

During Tyrion's trial, Shae betrays Tyrion by lying that he conspired with Sansa to murder King Joffrey and Lord Tywin, revealing the full and intimate details of their affair - including her pet name for him as her "Giant of Lannister"; in exchange for her testimony Cersei Lannister offered her a manse in King's Landing and a knight to wed.

I still think she could have been in someone's pocket before Joffery died. Remember that whore from the brothel that they beat up because they thought she was Tyrion's lover (but he was actually using her as a cover to sneak off to Shae)? I think that Cersei/Tywin knew that she was not really his lover, they just had her beaten to prove to Tyrion that they could get to his lover if they wished. (I can't remember if it was Cersei or Tywin that had her beaten.)

[joda]

I don't think she was anyone but Tyrion's until Joff's death. I think she actually was in love with Tyrion in a fashion. More because of his ability to give her the type of life she wants than actual love. She could see that wasn't going to continue and when she received a better offer from Cersei she felt she needed to take it.

[joda]

Shae is going to redeem herself. Cersei obviously ran her down (what happened to Bronn?) and she's doing what she needs to do to live. Tyrion still loves her and threw in the whore insult at the end of the trial for her protection. The two will live happily ever after.

 

dude is such a rough ridin' moron

Also it was a huge  :ROFL:moment when I saw this.

[Mrs. Gooch]

I don't think she was anyone but Tyrion's until Joff's death. I think she actually was in love with Tyrion in a fashion. More because of his ability to give her the type of life she wants than actual love. She could see that wasn't going to continue and when she received a better offer from Cersei she felt she needed to take it.

If she was "loyal" to Tyrion until Joff's death, then why was she still in King's Landing instead of going to Bravvos or wherever he sent her?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't think she was anyone but Tyrion's until Joff's death. I think she actually was in love with Tyrion in a fashion. More because of his ability to give her the type of life she wants than actual love. She could see that wasn't going to continue and when she received a better offer from Cersei she felt she needed to take it.

If she was "loyal" to Tyrion until Joff's death, then why was she still in King's Landing instead of going to Bravvos or wherever he sent her?

Maybe Varys outed her before she could get on the boat.

[Mr Bread]

During Tyrion's trial, Shae betrays Tyrion by lying that he conspired with Sansa to murder King Joffrey and Lord Tywin, revealing the full and intimate details of their affair - including her pet name for him as her "Giant of Lannister"; in exchange for her testimony Cersei Lannister offered her a manse in King's Landing and a knight to wed.

I still think she could have been in someone's pocket before Joffery died. Remember that whore from the brothel that they beat up because they thought she was Tyrion's lover (but he was actually using her as a cover to sneak off to Shae)? I think that Cersei/Tywin knew that she was not really his lover, they just had her beaten to prove to Tyrion that they could get to his lover if they wished. (I can't remember if it was Cersei or Tywin that had her beaten.)

Cersei did that because Tyrion had been rough ridin' with her plans left and right when he was the Hand.  She really thought that was his #1 whore at the time, because he would visit her room and then take a secret passage to Shae.  Tywin wasn't in KL when it happened. 

[joda]

I don't think she was anyone but Tyrion's until Joff's death. I think she actually was in love with Tyrion in a fashion. More because of his ability to give her the type of life she wants than actual love. She could see that wasn't going to continue and when she received a better offer from Cersei she felt she needed to take it.

If she was "loyal" to Tyrion until Joff's death, then why was she still in King's Landing instead of going to Bravvos or wherever he sent her?

Maybe Varys outed her before she could get on the boat.

Or because the show made it so Tywin and Cersei knew who she was they simply plucked her off the boat before it set sail.

The whole Shae on a boat thing is different from the book anyway. If I remember right she was trying to talk Tyrion into letting her be at the wedding rather than being sent away.

[joda]

During Tyrion's trial, Shae betrays Tyrion by lying that he conspired with Sansa to murder King Joffrey and Lord Tywin, revealing the full and intimate details of their affair - including her pet name for him as her "Giant of Lannister"; in exchange for her testimony Cersei Lannister offered her a manse in King's Landing and a knight to wed.

I still think she could have been in someone's pocket before Joffery died. Remember that whore from the brothel that they beat up because they thought she was Tyrion's lover (but he was actually using her as a cover to sneak off to Shae)? I think that Cersei/Tywin knew that she was not really his lover, they just had her beaten to prove to Tyrion that they could get to his lover if they wished. (I can't remember if it was Cersei or Tywin that had her beaten.)

Cersei did that because Tyrion had been rough ridin' with her plans left and right when he was the Hand.  She really thought that was his #1 whore at the time, because he would visit her room and then take a secret passage to Shae.  Tywin wasn't in KL when it happened.

Yea, that was all Cersei thinking she had it all figured out.

[Mr Bread]

I don't think she was anyone but Tyrion's until Joff's death. I think she actually was in love with Tyrion in a fashion. More because of his ability to give her the type of life she wants than actual love. She could see that wasn't going to continue and when she received a better offer from Cersei she felt she needed to take it.

If she was "loyal" to Tyrion until Joff's death, then why was she still in King's Landing instead of going to Bravvos or wherever he sent her?

Maybe Varys outed her before she could get on the boat.

Or because the show made it so Tywin and Cersei knew who she was they simply plucked her off the boat before it set sail.

The whole Shae on a boat thing is different from the book anyway. If I remember right she was trying to talk Tyrion into letting her be at the wedding rather than being sent away.

Varys told Tyrion straight up in the books that if Cersei questioned him directly about Shae he would not lie.  So Tyrion planned to marry her off to some knight to save her.  This was just before Joffrey's death.

And I love you as well, sweetling. A whore she might well be, but she deserved better than what he had to give her. I will wed her to Ser Tallad. He seems a decent man. And tall…

All Cersei had to do was grill Varys and he would have told her exactly who Shae was and where to find her. 

[HerrSonntag]

I'm pretty sure there is some legal reason that a Kingsguard cannot represent the King's accused killer in trial by combat.

IIRC, this is correct. I believe Jaime was Tyrion's first choice, but he was prohibited from championing for him. However, I don't remember why Bronn wouldn't/ couldn't do it.

I don't think Bronn is in King's landing/and or they can't find him.

The quote about Bronn is correct, he refuses because someone offers him a better deal... IIRC he even asks Tyrion "Can you beat a lordship? [in reference to his earlier quote "If anyone asks you to betray me, whatever they're offering, i'll beat it!"]"  To which he begrudgingly and without avarice acknowledges that he cannot.

However, in the books, Jaime was still on the road when Joff was murdered, and Tyrion is in chains when he returns to Kings Landing.  He doesn't reveal his presence to Tyrion, and only observes his trial from afar.  So Tyrion, both doesn't know hes available to call on, nor does he know of his disfigurement (no one tells him anything whilst in the cell, unlike the show he's kept in isolation) so he wouldn't even have suggested calling on Jaime to act as his champion.

As such, in the show Tyrion knows that Jaime is alive and availible and most importantly, not wanting to give the impression that he's lost the ability to fight...  IMO, this sets up a plot twist that could be very in keeping with the spirit of ASOIAF and revealing about the characters involved.  I.E - Tyrion hates Jaime for ever not because of his youthful betrayal, but for abandoning him as his champion.

[Asteriskhead]

The quote about Bronn is correct, he refuses because someone offers him a better deal... IIRC he even asks Tyrion "Can you beat a lordship? [in reference to his earlier quote "If anyone asks you to betray me, whatever they're offering, i'll beat it!"]"  To which he begrudgingly and without avarice acknowledges that he cannot.

However, in the books, Jaime was still on the road when Joff was murdered, and Tyrion is in chains when he returns to Kings Landing.  He doesn't reveal his presence to Tyrion, and only observes his trial from afar.  So Tyrion, both doesn't know hes available to call on, nor does he know of his disfigurement (no one tells him anything whilst in the cell, unlike the show he's kept in isolation) so he wouldn't even have suggested calling on Jaime to act as his champion.

As such, in the show Tyrion knows that Jaime is alive and availible and most importantly, not wanting to give the impression that he's lost the ability to fight...  IMO, this sets up a plot twist that could be very in keeping with the spirit of ASOIAF and revealing about the characters involved.  I.E - Tyrion hates Jaime for ever not because of his youthful betrayal, but for abandoning him as his champion.

I feel like this is a strange usage of this word.

Was it only in the show that Tyrion attempted to name Jaime as his champion in The Vale?

Cersei will name The Mountain as her champion and Oberyn will jump at the chance to avenge his sister. Tyrion is not that irrational. He wouldn't begrudge Jaime for not championing for him, given his state. I imagine that Tyrion is smart enough to know that it would be in the best interest of both of them for someone else to take up Tyrion's cause.

[HerrSonntag]

Malice was the word I was looking for.  Good catch.

He did try to name Jaime in the Vale in the books, and like the show he was denied naming an absent champion.

I dunno, I think it would be a smarter move to name Jaime than the greatest fighter in Westeros.  He wouldn't be naming a champion who he thought could win, he'd be naming one he thought couldn't lose, i.e Tywin/Cersei wouldn't match him up against someone who'd kill him (or would she?).

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/05/14/george_r_r_martin_writes_on_dos_based_wordstar_4_0_software_from_the_1980s.html

[mocat]

i hate him

[michigancat]

Yeah, he can eff right off. What a rough ridin' dipshit.

[joda]

Malice was the word I was looking for.  Good catch.

He did try to name Jaime in the Vale in the books, and like the show he was denied naming an absent champion.

I dunno, I think it would be a smarter move to name Jaime than the greatest fighter in Westeros.  He wouldn't be naming a champion who he thought could win, he'd be naming one he thought couldn't lose, i.e Tywin/Cersei wouldn't match him up against someone who'd kill him (or would she?).

In the books it's made clear that Cersei means to name the Mountain from the very beginning. I don't remember him even considering Jaime as an option, probably because a) he had no idea where Jaime was and b) he didn't think Jaime would actually do it because, as far as Tyrion knows, he and Cersei are still lovers. After Bronn refused him, Tyrion basically gave up the idea of tbc. It wasn't until Oberyn himself suggested it prior to the last day of the trial that Tyrion again considered it.

[michigancat]

I'm seriously thinking about not reading the last two books and just watching the show. Or maybe not even watching the show because I'm so sick of George RR Martin's bullshit.