I Wish Kirk And John Would Explain These

[420seriouscat69]

To expound, I've never had a problem that a major part of gE is that most people don't just go with the popular opinion and the desire to have high expectations. Its part of why I like it here so much in fact.

However, I think a lot of people don't have the ability to disagree and give criticism without basically calling the person they disagree with a dumbass and coming off as a prick.

[Pete]

It's pretty clear that both the President and the AD "get it" that football pays the freight, and have devoted significant resources toward it....and simultaneously view basketball as something that MUST be serviceable, but needed distract us from the goal of making football competitive.

I am in complete agreement with them regarding football.  But, I empathize with those who yearn for basketball to be better.

[Kat Kid]

I think he's a useful buffoon.

Kirk?  I don't think that is "him" I think that is his twitter persona.

I understand the problem people have with the tweet and I don't disagree with some of the responses.  I also think FAN's point about people being a-holes looking for a fight all the time is a bit grating.  I just would like to know what some realistic acceptable alternatives would've been.  I posted two alternatives that I like better for his response.  I could think of a few different things to say in the original tweet, but overall the message would be the same and there is going to be a natural tension between whatever he says and people that don't like oscar and were upset and disappointed with our season.

FTR I think Currie's tweet was more reasonable "adversity" (Angel, Jevon, picked to finish) than Kirk's, but that people would find fault with the message if it was different anyway. 

Big picture: The branding and marketing efforts of Kansas State are really good compared with our past (RP era, paint splotches etc) I am very happy with the messaging and the marketing that gets done in spite of some of the people that are getting promoted.  It is a hell of a lot harder to promote Kansas State basketball under oscar.  It is difficult to brand and promote Kansas State football under Snyder and make it appealing to young people but they do a very underrated job.  So I am willing give a lot of leeway for a tweet by our AD and president because I have a lot of positives about Kirk on twitter and the athletic marketing in general.

[kso_FAN]

But, I empathize with those who yearn for basketball to be better.

Of course, but what does this mean right now?

Really there are only 2 things I'm really disappointed in for the oscar era; a) not making the 2nd weekend with a favorable seed last year and b) losing Angel.

Not winning away from the OOD was frustrating this year, but as of now its not a trend for a) K-State or b) oscar. Not yet.

I don't think the program is in bad shape at all, but now its nearly completely his program (Gip is really the only significant holdover) and he must make it work and win games. He and his staff put stock into 2 transfers for next year and that must work out as well as the development of the players he recruited. I understand some people put very little hope into that happening based on oscar at Illinois, I'm just not that pessimistic.

Next year my expectations for this program are higher than they were this year. Contending for the league and at least finishing in the Top 4 (KU, OU, and UT will all be very good, ISU, BU, and WVU will be solid), getting a 6 seed in the NCAAs (or better), and winning at least 1 tournament game are reasonable to me. If we don't achieve those things I'll be extremely disappointed, but the main thing that would pull me toward full BID or major heat on oscar is not making the tournament. That's my minimum standard and oscar is already past the point of having the rebuilding year where that expectation could slip (this was his year for that).

[Pete]

but the main thing that would pull me toward full BID or major heat on oscar is not making the tournament. That's my minimum standard and oscar is already past the point of having the rebuilding year where that expectation could slip (this was his year for that).

I completely agree with your point on the minimum standard.

[Kat Kid]

But, I empathize with those who yearn for basketball to be better.

Of course, but what does this mean right now?

Really there are only 2 things I'm really disappointed in for the oscar era; a) not making the 2nd weekend with a favorable seed last year and b) losing Angel.

Not winning away from the OOD was frustrating this year, but as of now its not a trend for a) K-State or b) oscar. Not yet.

I don't think the program is in bad shape at all, but now its nearly completely his program (Gip is really the only significant holdover) and he must make it work and win games. He and his staff put stock into 2 transfers for next year and that must work out as well as the development of the players he recruited. I understand some people put very little hope into that happening based on oscar at Illinois, I'm just not that pessimistic.

Next year my expectations for this program are higher than they were this year. Contending for the league and at least finishing in the Top 4 (KU, OU, and UT will all be very good, ISU, BU, and WVU will be solid), getting a 6 seed in the NCAAs (or better), and winning at least 1 tournament game are reasonable to me. If we don't achieve those things I'll be extremely disappointed, but the main thing that would pull me toward full BID or major heat on oscar is not making the tournament. That's my minimum standard and oscar is already past the point of having the rebuilding year where that expectation could slip (this was his year for that).

I'll tell what was not frustrating: winning a ton of games at home.  I only watched the cats lose twice in person.

[kso_FAN]

I'll tell what was not frustrating: winning a ton of games at home.  I only watched the cats lose twice in person.

Yeah, the OOD games were a blast. Destroying teams like UT and WVU and really fun wins vs ISU, KU, OSU, and OU. Also, GW and Ole Miss.

[sonofdaxjones]

What is it? 16-2 at home in conference play.   Sounds terrible. 


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[felix rex]

I hate loser talk. Just say you're proud of the players and share their disappointment and expect more next year.  I hate Currie's because it's a dumb vague excuse.


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[chum1]

Currie's not talking about the rough start.  He said all year.  But, yeah, there's probably nothing to it - just the adversity of injuries and stuff that all team deal with.

We were a good team, though.  Making the NCAA tournament is great.  It seems like people are dismissive of the accomplishment.

[Trim]

I think he's a useful buffoon.

Kirk?  I don't think that is "him" I think that is his twitter persona.

I understand the problem people have with the tweet and I don't disagree with some of the responses.  I also think FAN's point about people being a-holes looking for a fight all the time is a bit grating.  I just would like to know what some realistic acceptable alternatives would've been.  I posted two alternatives that I like better for his response.  I could think of a few different things to say in the original tweet, but overall the message would be the same and there is going to be a natural tension between whatever he says and people that don't like oscar and were upset and disappointed with our season.

FTR I think Currie's tweet was more reasonable "adversity" (Angel, Jevon, picked to finish) than Kirk's, but that people would find fault with the message if it was different anyway. 

Big picture: The branding and marketing efforts of Kansas State are really good compared with our past (RP era, paint splotches etc) I am very happy with the messaging and the marketing that gets done in spite of some of the people that are getting promoted.  It is a hell of a lot harder to promote Kansas State basketball under oscar. It is difficult to brand and promote Kansas State football under Snyder and make it appealing to young people but they do a very underrated job.  So I am willing give a lot of leeway for a tweet by our AD and president because I have a lot of positives about Kirk on twitter and the athletic marketing in general.

Self-inflicted.

[felix rex]

Yes. Working past the self-imposed limitations of your own bad judgment isn't super laudable.


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[EMAWzified]

Currie scares the hell out of me. From his history, I would fully expect him to hire Dan McCarney as LCBS's successor.
This season was the baseline of acceptable. Our quick tournament exit was not that much of a disappointment but it highlights what a missed opportunity last year was.

[kso_FAN]

Currie scares the hell out of me. From his history, I would fully expect him to hire Dan McCarney as LCBS's successor.

Well, he also showed that if you don't reach some level of expectations and have your program moving in a positive direction you will be fired. Even if you've been here a long time.

[Dugout DickStone]

Currie's not talking about the rough start.  He said all year.  But, yeah, there's probably nothing to it - just the adversity of injuries and stuff that all team deal with.

We were a good team, though.  Making the NCAA tournament is great.  It seems like people are dismissive of the accomplishment.

Yup.  We are Kstate.  Take your first round loss, shut up and be happy.  #overachieved

[Trim]

This is the kstatesports.com summary of the Martin era.

Hoping to continue the momentum started in 2006-07, Kansas State chose Huggins' top assistant, Frank Martin, as the Wildcats' 23rd head coach on April 6, 2007. Martin built upon the school's tremendous tradition with an unprecedented five consecutive 20-win seasons and five postseason appearances, including trips to the NCAA Tournament in 2008, 2010, 2011 and 2012. He departed K-State in 2012 for South Carolina, wrapping up his five-year tenure with a 117-54 overall record, including a 50-32 mark in Big 12 play. His 117 wins were the most by a coach in K-State history in his first five seasons and the most-ever by the school in a five-year span. Martin is the first Wildcat head coach to post five consecutive 20-win seasons and the first to guide the school to the postseason in each of his five seasons. The four NCAA Tournament appearances in a five-year span are the most since the squad went to four consecutive tournaments from 1986-90.

Armed with one of the nation's top recruiting classes, he became just the second rookie coach in school history to lead his team to the NCAA Tournament and the first since Lon Kruger did so in 1986-87, as the Wildcats advanced to the Big Dance for the first time since the 1995-96 season. Once there, Martin helped the program capture its first NCAA Tournament victory since 1988 with a thrilling 80-67 win over fifth-seeded USC in the first round of the MIdwest Regional in Omaha, Neb., on March 20.

Under Martin's tutelage, Michael Beasley had one of the greatest seasons ever by a college freshman in NCAA history in 2007-08, as he averaged 26.2 points and 12.4 rebounds per game in earning National Player of the Year honors from both CBS Sports.com and Rivals.com and National Freshman of the Year honors from CBS Sports.com, Rivals.com, CollegeHoops.net, The Sporting News and U.S. Basketball Writers Association. Beasley became just the second player in school history to earn consensus first team All-America honors and the first since Bob Boozer in 1959. In addition, he became the just the second player in league history to be named both the Big 12 Player and Freshman of the Year by the coaches and The Associated Press.

Despite losing four starters, including two to the NBA, Martin helped Kansas State to a 22-12 overall record and a tie for fourth-place in the Big 12 with a 9-7 mark in 2008-09. The Wildcats advanced to the postseason for the third consecutive season with an at-large bid (No. 4 seed) to the NIT. The squad defeated Illinois State, 83-79, at home in overtime in the first round before losing to the region's top-seed, San Diego State, in the second round, 70-52, in San Diego, Calif. Following the regular season, junior Denis Clemente became the first Wildcat in the Big 12 era to be named the Phillips 66 Big 12 Newcomer of the Year, while Clemente was named second team All-Big 12 and sophomore Jacob Pullen was selected to the honorable mention squad.

Armed with arguably the nation's top backcourt of All-Americans Denis Clemente and Jacob Pullen, Kansas State posted one of its greatest seasons ever in 2009-10, totaling a school-record 29 wins en route to the school's first Elite Eight appearance in 22 seasons.  The squad earned its highest-ever seed (No. 2) in the NCAA Tournament and recorded three wins (North Texas, BYU and Xavier) at the tournament for just the fourth time in school history before losing a hard-fought 63-56 contest to eventual national runner-up Butler in the West Regional Final.  The Wildcats finished in the Top 10 of both major polls, including seventh in the ESPN/USA Today Coaches Top 25 poll, for the first time since ranking ninth in 1973.  It was the highest final ranking for the school since concluding the 1961-62 season at No. 6 in The Associate Press poll. 

In all, K-State set 23 team and individual records in 2009-10, including shattering marks for scoring (2,949), field goals (981), 3-point field goals (253), free throws (734) and blocked shots (187).  For his efforts, head coach Frank Martin was the runner-up to Syracuse's Jim Boeheim for The Associated Press' National Coach of the Year in 2010, while he was a finalist for the Naismith Men's College Basketball Coach of the Year.  Martin was a near unanimous choice for a number of Big 12 Coach of the Year awards, collecting them from the league coaches, AP, The Sporting News and Kansas City Star.  Both Clemente and Pullen earned All-America distinction, becoming just the second set of Wildcats to earn the honor in the same season.  Pullen became just the second Wildcat to tally first team All-Big 12 honors from the league coaches since 1997.

Kansas State faced huge expectations in 2010-11 with multiple preseason Top 10 rankings and a preseason All-American in Jacob Pullen.  Despite some bumps in the road, the Wildcats recorded its fifth consecutive 20-win season, including its fourth in a row under Martin, and advanced to the NCAA Tournament for the third time in four seasons.  Overall, the squad posted a 23-11 overall record, including a tie for third place in the Big 12, and knocked off six ranked foes, including the nation's No. 1 team for the second consecutive season.  Senior Jacob Pullen became one of the program's all-time greats, earning All-America honors and first team All-Big 12 accolades for the second straight season.  He also surpassed Mike Evans to become the school's all-time leading scorer with 2,132 points.  In all, Pullen left K-State owning seven career records, including wins (95), games played (135), double-digit scoring games (105), 3-point field goals (299) and steals), and ranking in the Top 5 in 17 total career categories.

Schultz and Currie are two dudes who looked at that and said "we don't want that."

FYI, this is the ENTIRE summary of K-State basketball from 1994-2006.

Tom Asbury took over the program in 1994, guiding the Wildcats to the 1996 NCAA Tournament in his second season. Asbury would help the program to back-to-back postseason appearances at the NIT in 1998 and 1999. His 1999 squad won 20 games for the first time since the 1994 season.

Jim Wooldridge arrived on campus in 2000 and continued to build on the great tradition established many years ago. He built a strong foundation that helped the program capture back-to-back winning seasons in 2004-05 and 2005-06, including a 17-win season in 2004-05 and narrowly missing the postseason.

I don't put much stock into what Kirk Schulz and John Currie think is right for K-State basketball.

[chum1]

Currie's not talking about the rough start.  He said all year.  But, yeah, there's probably nothing to it - just the adversity of injuries and stuff that all team deal with.

We were a good team, though.  Making the NCAA tournament is great.  It seems like people are dismissive of the accomplishment.

Yup.  We are Kstate.  Take your first round loss, shut up and be happy.  #overachieved

You can both enjoy the season and also want the team to improve.  At the same damn time!

[#LIFE]

Can someone explain why in the eff Jake's jersey isn't hanging?   

[michigancat]

If oscar gets us to the ncaa's every year, he can stay as long as he wants IMO.

[EMAWzified]

I think at some point you actually have to make noise in the NCAA to sustain the program.

[michigancat]

I think at some point you actually have to make noise in the NCAA to sustain the program.

if you're going every year you'll eventually "make noise".

[Asteriskhead]

I think at some point you actually have to make noise in the NCAA to sustain the program.

if you're going every year you'll eventually "make noise".

i'm not really sure that I agree with that assumption, based on the past two years.

[michigancat]

I think at some point you actually have to make noise in the NCAA to sustain the program.

if you're going every year you'll eventually "make noise".

i'm not really sure that I agree with that assumption, based on the past two years.

two games aren't enough to constitute some sort of trend

[MakeItRain]

To expound, I've never had a problem that a major part of gE is that most people don't just go with the popular opinion and the desire to have high expectations. Its part of why I like it here so much in fact.

However, I think a lot of people don't have the ability to disagree and give criticism without basically calling the person they disagree with a dumbass and coming off as a prick.

honest question, do you understand the irony of your response to _FAN's post

[MakeItRain]

I think at some point you actually have to make noise in the NCAA to sustain the program.

if you're going every year you'll eventually "make noise".

you hope

are you willing to watch oscar go 1-6 in his next 6 seasons, I'm not