burn. it. down

[MakeItRain]

I'm not going to quote the smorgasbord of posts in MIR's last reply/ quote, but he's right. If anything it was a good job of coaching by both Frank and Brad at the time. This whole idea of black and white, or crediting one guy necessitates trashing someone else is ridiculous. Like literally ridiculous, as in when you do it you're deserving of ridicule. Which sucks, because it is basically what half the post around here are.

So it was all lies that Brad pushed the pinwheel?  GMAFB you people are nuts. 
No one is saying its black and white.  It took a lot of humility for Frank to allow Brad to step up and install the offense like he did. Both coaches worked that system pretty damn well.

But what MIR was saying is that it wasn't some overnight overhaul or "installing" of anything. They'd been doing it for years, only at more limited increments. I'd agree it took some humility on Frank's part, but probably less than one might imagine. Basically two coaches getting together and figuring out a game plan that best suited their team moving forward at a critical point in their season.

the guy is weird, he told me I was wrong and then in the same post agreed with what I posted

it's like that Chappelle Show Charlie Murphy Rick James sketch where he says he would never put his feet on someone's couch then the next sentence says he put his feet on Eddie Murphy's couch and blended it on cocaine

[420seriouscat69]

Mir Is Such A Racist.

[chum1]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois. 

[ksupamplemousse]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

[chum1]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

Nope.  Still won't give a crap regardless of what happens here.

[ksupamplemousse]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

Nope.  Still won't give a crap regardless of what happens here.

That's not very smart.

[MakeItRain]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

[MakeItRain]

Mir Is Such A Racist.

I'm not sure why you're lashing out at me, let's talk about this post next time I see you, and I'm gonna need more than "I was pak'ed"

[nicname]

Mir Is Such A Racist.

I'm not sure why you're lashing out at me, let's talk about this post next time I see you, and I'm gonna need more than "I was pak'ed"

yeah, what the eff fanning?

[ksupamplemousse]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I see what you're saying, but if we have another first round exit next year, then I think results prior to K-State should be considered. I understand that his seat will be hot regardless, but his previous failures in the tourney at Illinois should be a factor, because it would be a long term trend that should not be ignored by our AD.

[SdK]

Mir Is Such A Racist.

I'm not sure why you're lashing out at me, let's talk about this post next time I see you, and I'm gonna need more than "I was pak'ed"

[nicname]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

[MakeItRain]

Yes but if he doesn't it would be three years in a row here without a tourney win, that isn't just attributed to cold dice. We've gone 7 seasons before tonight, having back to back sessions without a tourney win. Finishing the season the way we have the last two seasons does nothing to build positive momentum. Many casual fans can get swayed by success in March, just as fans can get frustrated with excessive March Failures, cold dice. There would be a whole lot less Frankites if we couldn't get out of the round of 64.

[Panjandrum]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

I don't think oscar is going to feel a lot of pressure while the football team keeps winning at the level it is.

If oscar is finishing in the top half and going to the tournament every year, and he beats KU once every couple of years, it's all he needs while we win in football.  Especially, if Currie is still here.

Now, if Brad keeps killing it at SFA, then I think that's where the heat comes from.  But we're not going to fire a guy that's going to the tournament every year.  I don't feel that's something the KSU administration would be okay with.

[nicname]

Yes but if he doesn't it would be three years in a row here without a tourney win, that isn't just attributed to cold dice. We've gone 7 seasons before tonight, having back to back sessions without a tourney win. Finishing the season the way we have the last two seasons does nothing to build positive momentum. Many casual fans can get swayed by success in March, just as fans can get frustrated with excessive March Failures, cold dice. There would be a whole lot less Frankites if we couldn't get out of the round of 64.

Oh yeah. Like I said, the loss to LaSalle was a failure. This loss nah. But, like you said whatever happens next year the microscope will be on come tourney time.  The four-straight losses this season hurts too.

[chum1]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I see what you're saying, but if we have another first round exit next year, then I think results prior to K-State should be considered. I understand that his seat will be hot regardless, but his previous failures in the tourney at Illinois should be a factor, because it would be a long term trend that should not be ignored by our AD.

So, I'm not smart because I don't care to play Junior AD?

[Panjandrum]

Yes but if he doesn't it would be three years in a row here without a tourney win, that isn't just attributed to cold dice. We've gone 7 seasons before tonight, having back to back sessions without a tourney win. Finishing the season the way we have the last two seasons does nothing to build positive momentum. Many casual fans can get swayed by success in March, just as fans can get frustrated with excessive March Failures, cold dice. There would be a whole lot less Frankites if we couldn't get out of the round of 64.

Oh yeah. Like I said, the loss to LaSalle was a failure. This loss nah. But, like you said whatever happens next year the microscope will be on come tourney time.  The four-straight losses this season hurts too.

He's going to get a pass for this year because his freshmen, as a whole, played better than Frank's seniors.

That's going to buy him capital with a large segment of the fan base.

[eastcat]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

I don't think oscar is going to feel a lot of pressure while the football team keeps winning at the level it is.

If oscar is finishing in the top half and going to the tournament every year, and he beats KU once every couple of years, it's all he needs while we win in football.  Especially, if Currie is still here.

Now, if Brad keeps killing it at SFA, then I think that's where the heat comes from.  But we're not going to fire a guy that's going to the tournament every year.  I don't feel that's something the KSU administration would be okay with.

Part of our problem is how comfortable a large portion of KSU has become staying where we have historically been - average. They justify it using words like 'family' 'grass roots' 'blue collar' etc.. but it's really just a feel good way of saying 'average as eff'. I know Currie is good at pinching pennies out of donors pockets but we need someone with some nuts to hire people who can win real crap on the big stage.

Could have taken a chance with pearl and now we'll never know. Could have taken a chance with Patterson but now we'll never know.

KSU- Taking the 'safe' route every time!

[nicname]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

I don't think oscar is going to feel a lot of pressure while the football team keeps winning at the level it is.

If oscar is finishing in the top half and going to the tournament every year, and he beats KU once every couple of years, it's all he needs while we win in football.  Especially, if Currie is still here.

Now, if Brad keeps killing it at SFA, then I think that's where the heat comes from.  But we're not going to fire a guy that's going to the tournament every year.  I don't feel that's something the KSU administration would be okay with.

Brad will get a good job before then and won't sit around and pine for the KSU job.

[nicname]

eastcat doesn't know what average means

[Panjandrum]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

I don't think oscar is going to feel a lot of pressure while the football team keeps winning at the level it is.

If oscar is finishing in the top half and going to the tournament every year, and he beats KU once every couple of years, it's all he needs while we win in football.  Especially, if Currie is still here.

Now, if Brad keeps killing it at SFA, then I think that's where the heat comes from.  But we're not going to fire a guy that's going to the tournament every year.  I don't feel that's something the KSU administration would be okay with.

Part of our problem is how comfortable a large portion of KSU has become staying where we have historically been - average. They justify it using words like 'family' 'grass roots' 'blue collar' etc.. but it's really just a feel good way of saying 'average as eff'. I know Currie is good at pinching pennies out of donors pockets but we need someone with some nuts to hire people who can win real crap on the big stage.

Could have taken a chance with pearl and now we'll never know. Could have taken a chance with Patterson but now we'll never know.

KSU- Taking the 'safe' route every time!

But what is average?  KSU is now tied with Florida for the most consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, and oscar has 2 of the 5.  We'll make the tournament, most likely, each of the next two years.  Seven consecutive trips puts us into what is currently Louisville, Ohio State, and Syracuse territory.

oscar needs to win a game in March.  I think that happens next year.  But he's got around a .700 winning percentage at KSU right now, and we bring back nearly the entire roster.  If he keeps winning, even at this level, that consistent level of 'B+' is hard to find unless you're a really elite program.

[Panjandrum]

I don't care what oscar did at Illinois.

You probably should if those trends continue at K-State.

He's been polarizing enough here in 2 seasons that Illinois doesn't matter anymore at all. He has a good foundation in place here and had won a lot of games & a conference title. However, the fans haven't gotten on board en masse, that showing in KC was an embarrassment; and the two round of 64 exits are bad. He has a bit of pressure on him now, what's sad is that the regular season in 14-15, won't mean anything, even if he wins another conference title. His seat will become blazing if he loses another 2nd round game.

I don't know if I'm the only one that believes this. The tournament is a crapshoot. Last year KSU/ oscar definitely shat the bed. His biggest mistake was not playing JO more (same could be said for the whole season really), and that was a game the Cats should have won. It really was a great chance for a deep run.

This season was simply a terrible match-up against a team in Kentucky whose strengths match up terribly with KSU's weaknesses a la Baylor.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you just gotta keep consistently getting in and earning higher seeds and eventually you'll make your run.

I don't think oscar is going to feel a lot of pressure while the football team keeps winning at the level it is.

If oscar is finishing in the top half and going to the tournament every year, and he beats KU once every couple of years, it's all he needs while we win in football.  Especially, if Currie is still here.

Now, if Brad keeps killing it at SFA, then I think that's where the heat comes from.  But we're not going to fire a guy that's going to the tournament every year.  I don't feel that's something the KSU administration would be okay with.

Brad will get a good job before then and won't sit around and pine for the KSU job.

Oh, I know.  I'm just talking about immediate heat from donors and fans that would rather have Brad.

And, who knows, at any given time, Brad may consider this his dream job like Huggs considered WVU his dream job?

[Stevesie60]

1. Panj, you said we're tied with Florida with most consecutive tournament appearances at 5. I assume you're saying we're tied for 5th most consecutive appearances, right?

2. Frank and oscar's strengths are different, so these talking points are going to keep going around and around. Frank was inconsistent to the point that if he was hear last year, I don't think we would have won a Big 12 Championship. We would have lost a few more games that we shouldn't have, but maybe beat KU at home to make up for it. However, there is no doubt in my mind that if we had the same slot in the tourney we would have beaten La Salle. And we would have been talked about more (we were a borderline top 10 team for almost all of conference play, but most people will never remember that because no one wanted to talk about us, and I think that's oscar's fault.)

3. Why is coaching the tournament so different? A lot of coaches seem to have completely different reputations when it comes to tournament coaching vs. regular season coaching. I don't doubt that. But it seems weird to me that there is such a big disparity between them for a lot of coaches.

[ednksu]

Undy sold pp to Frank after asprilla left and we had no bigs.

DING!

Are you trolling or have the world's worst comprehension? Cire is agreeing with my post. To recap slowly.

mixedberrycrunch Said Brad's offense saved Frank
I said that offense, called the pinch post, was not Brad's offense people ran it before he was a coach, & he recommended it to Frank who said yes.
you found some weird way to disagree with what I told you
cire posted this and you agreed
 

Hopefully your haldol has kicked in by the time you read this.

Mix and I never said Brad invented the PP/Pin.  We said that it was Brad's offense in our system.  That is undeniably a fact.  You are trying to revise history in order to make your point look less asinine.  Yes Brad's offense, his advise to go 100% his direction, saved that season for Frank.  That in no way shape or form is what Frank wanted to do that season as evidence by the floundering offense we had for the first half of the year.  You can attempt to revise history all you want in order to make Frank look better, but its still a lie.  No one on post game for a season and a half referred to the offense as "the great compromise between dear leader Frank and coach Underwood to adopt an old offense based on mutual agreement."  It was always "Brad's offense."  This stupid debate is the same as saying the motion/spread that Bama could go to next year is Sabans and only Sabans, even though he got a new OC, who coincidentally wanted to make some changes.

[MakeItRain]

sigh