burn. it. down

[chum1]

What proven or talented  players are we adding next year?

Look them up.  It will be interesting.  Plus, the freshman will be better.

There is no talent or proven players.  And the freshmen don't have to get better.  The seniors didn't.

So, you're not going to look them up?

I did. no talent. not proven.

The proven requirement sounds really dumb for newcomers.  Like, should we limit ourselves to all-conference transfers?  If so, we'd have no players.  Well, outside of Edwards, I guess.  The talent requirement is both dumb and vague.  Try to define it and you'll see what I mean.

the transfers aren't proven you rough ridin' dumbass.

That's not really what I was talking about.  But if you could try to clarify what you mean by proven, it would be helpful.  It's hard for me to imagine that you could give an example of a proven recruiting class that would meet you standards.

[MixBerryCrunch]

Frank's seniors exit with a 3 for 16 effort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep clearly Frank's fault, add the last two tournaments to all of the times that loser Frank lost in the round of 64

Frank and oscar can both get mumped. They're proving just how terrible they both are. Without Hill recruiting and Brad drawing up X and Os Frank is worthless.

lol, okay

I love how you love to think you are so smart but you really aren't. It's cute.

I'm sure you'll have no issue explaining to us what X's & O's Brad taught Frank that he didn't know before.

Are you really trying to debate that it wasn't Brad's offense we were running for a year and a half when Frank's was a dreadful failure?

yeah, everything in your sentence I take exception to, it's all wrong and a gross misunderstanding of basketball

Lolwut? Pullen's last season; go look up who's offense we put in place when we couldn't do crap midway through the season.

[catzacker]

What proven or talented  players are we adding next year?

Look them up.  It will be interesting.  Plus, the freshman will be better.

There is no talent or proven players.  And the freshmen don't have to get better.  The seniors didn't.

So, you're not going to look them up?

I did. no talent. not proven.

The proven requirement sounds really dumb for newcomers.  Like, should we limit ourselves to all-conference transfers?  If so, we'd have no players.  Well, outside of Edwards, I guess.  The talent requirement is both dumb and vague.  Try to define it and you'll see what I mean.

the transfers aren't proven you rough ridin' dumbass.

That's not really what I was talking about.  But if you could try to clarify what you mean by proven, it would be helpful.  It's hard for me to imagine that you could give an example of a proven recruiting class that would meet you standards.

The team will get better because of an infusion of talent or proven players.  Because a proven player isn't/wasn't available doesn't mean it is invalid.  An example is Aaron Murray of Texas Southern.  But keep being a complete dumbass.  It's not a standard, it's a reason a team will get better, regardless of its frequency.  The real or more probable reason (maybe easier?) is talent, and we aren't adding that either.

[AndrewVonLintel]

I upgraded oscar from awful hire to average college coach 3 months ago.

The problem I have is that there were probably 6 great hires that we could have made at the time.

1. Larry Brown (didn't think he was available)
2. Gregg Marshall (thought he was available and wanted him badly)
3. Lon Kruger        (not sure if available but would have liked for us to go after him)
4. Jankovich   (thought he was available but he took an assistant job to the legend Larry Brown)
5. Brad Underwood (available and an extremely easy hire).
6. Doug Gottlieb   (available and would have recruited more talent to K-State than we have ever seen).

I also was interested in Brad Stevens and Tad Boyle but I don't think either would have came to Manhattan.

Anyhow I am still mad but have gained enough appreciation for oscar to realize that he does a good job with some things. I hate him in press conferences and in game coaching decisions, but he does teach an offensive system that works well at times. He also has apparently given the defense to someone who knows how to coach defense.

[chum1]

What proven or talented  players are we adding next year?

Look them up.  It will be interesting.  Plus, the freshman will be better.

There is no talent or proven players.  And the freshmen don't have to get better.  The seniors didn't.

So, you're not going to look them up?

I did. no talent. not proven.

The proven requirement sounds really dumb for newcomers.  Like, should we limit ourselves to all-conference transfers?  If so, we'd have no players.  Well, outside of Edwards, I guess.  The talent requirement is both dumb and vague.  Try to define it and you'll see what I mean.

the transfers aren't proven you rough ridin' dumbass.

That's not really what I was talking about.  But if you could try to clarify what you mean by proven, it would be helpful.  It's hard for me to imagine that you could give an example of a proven recruiting class that would meet you standards.

The team will get better because of an infusion of talent or proven players.  Because a proven player isn't/wasn't available doesn't mean it is invalid.  An example is Aaron Murray of Texas Southern.  But keep being a complete dumbass.  It's not a standard, it's a reason a team will get better, regardless of its frequency.  The real or more probable reason (maybe easier?) is talent, and we aren't adding that either.

So, your not going to say what you mean by "talented" or "proven"?

[catzacker]

talent - add a Curtis Kelly, sprinkle in a Rodney McGruder and Wally Judge
proven - add a Denis Clemente

jfc chum.  quit be a rough ridin' contrarian just to be one.

[MakeItRain]

Frank's seniors exit with a 3 for 16 effort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep clearly Frank's fault, add the last two tournaments to all of the times that loser Frank lost in the round of 64

Frank and oscar can both get mumped. They're proving just how terrible they both are. Without Hill recruiting and Brad drawing up X and Os Frank is worthless.

lol, okay

I love how you love to think you are so smart but you really aren't. It's cute.

I'm sure you'll have no issue explaining to us what X's & O's Brad taught Frank that he didn't know before.

Are you really trying to debate that it wasn't Brad's offense we were running for a year and a half when Frank's was a dreadful failure?

yeah, everything in your sentence I take exception to, it's all wrong and a gross misunderstanding of basketball

So yeah, MiR wrong once again, called out, and makes up bullshit reason to deflect.  Pretty much rinse and repeat the usual bull when you're wrong.

deflect? You asked me a question and I point blank answered it? Go take your Paxil.

[ednksu]

Frank's seniors exit with a 3 for 16 effort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep clearly Frank's fault, add the last two tournaments to all of the times that loser Frank lost in the round of 64

Frank and oscar can both get mumped. They're proving just how terrible they both are. Without Hill recruiting and Brad drawing up X and Os Frank is worthless.

lol, okay

I love how you love to think you are so smart but you really aren't. It's cute.

I'm sure you'll have no issue explaining to us what X's & O's Brad taught Frank that he didn't know before.

Are you really trying to debate that it wasn't Brad's offense we were running for a year and a half when Frank's was a dreadful failure?

yeah, everything in your sentence I take exception to, it's all wrong and a gross misunderstanding of basketball

So yeah, MiR wrong once again, called out, and makes up bullshit reason to deflect.  Pretty much rinse and repeat the usual bull when you're wrong.

deflect? You asked me a question and I point blank answered it? Go take your Paxil.

Go have an emotional outburst somewhere (you're apparently really good at it.)

Either the entire offensive talking point for a year and a half of KSU offense is a lie, or MiR is totally wrong (again).

[chum1]

talent - add a Curtis Kelly, sprinkle in a Rodney McGruder and Wally Judge
proven - add a Denis Clemente

jfc chum.  quit be a rough ridin' contrarian just to be one.

No one knew what to expect from Kelly beforehand.  Could easily have sucked.  Judge did suck, so I don't know why you'd want one of him in your hypothetical.  Clemente didn't do much at Miami.  I don't think you really knew those guys upon arrival would be any better or worse than any players coming in next year.  You're fooling yourself if you think you did.

[nicname]

talent - add a Curtis Kelly, sprinkle in a Rodney McGruder and Wally Judge
proven - add a Denis Clemente

jfc chum.  quit be a rough ridin' contrarian just to be one.

No one knew what to expect from Kelly beforehand.  Could easily have sucked.  Judge did suck, so I don't know why you'd want one of him in your hypothetical.  Clemente didn't do much at Miami.  I don't think you really knew those guys upon arrival would be any better or worse than any players coming in next year.  You're fooling yourself if you think you did.

Yeah Clemente was more talent than proven. Kelly was definitely talent.

Go cats.

[MakeItRain]

Frank's seniors exit with a 3 for 16 effort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep clearly Frank's fault, add the last two tournaments to all of the times that loser Frank lost in the round of 64

Frank and oscar can both get mumped. They're proving just how terrible they both are. Without Hill recruiting and Brad drawing up X and Os Frank is worthless.

lol, okay

I love how you love to think you are so smart but you really aren't. It's cute.

I'm sure you'll have no issue explaining to us what X's & O's Brad taught Frank that he didn't know before.

Are you really trying to debate that it wasn't Brad's offense we were running for a year and a half when Frank's was a dreadful failure?

yeah, everything in your sentence I take exception to, it's all wrong and a gross misunderstanding of basketball

Lolwut? Pullen's last season; go look up who's offense we put in place when we couldn't do crap midway through the season.

So there's two things that make this talking point a flawed premise at best and just an outright lie at worst. So before we go into the actual offense, it's called the pinch post since clearly you and ednksu don't remember, let's talk about the set up of this absurd point.

You guys say that Brad saved Frank's offense, do you think Frank put in the entire offense without the help & consultation of his assistants? Then one day a half season after his supposed shitty offense took the team to a 2 seed and the elite 8 he decided to cede all control and let Brad completely take over. If this absurd scenario makes sense to you and you think this happened let's go to point two.

Brad didn't invent the pinch post, I learned about it at a high school coaching convention several years ago. We were running elements of it every year before the mid season switch, that's why it was relatively seamless to put it in before conference play started, many of the bigs actions were similar.

What happened is that we were struggling without Curt, Brad recommended we do the pinch post, Frank agreed.


"Brad's offense" didn't save Frank, that is highly inaccurate

[Winters]

Our Fanbase Is So Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  Sigh.

Yeah, like guys predicting a Sweet 16 

[ednksu]

Frank's seniors exit with a 3 for 16 effort. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep clearly Frank's fault, add the last two tournaments to all of the times that loser Frank lost in the round of 64

Frank and oscar can both get mumped. They're proving just how terrible they both are. Without Hill recruiting and Brad drawing up X and Os Frank is worthless.

lol, okay

I love how you love to think you are so smart but you really aren't. It's cute.

I'm sure you'll have no issue explaining to us what X's & O's Brad taught Frank that he didn't know before.

Are you really trying to debate that it wasn't Brad's offense we were running for a year and a half when Frank's was a dreadful failure?

yeah, everything in your sentence I take exception to, it's all wrong and a gross misunderstanding of basketball

Lolwut? Pullen's last season; go look up who's offense we put in place when we couldn't do crap midway through the season.

So there's two things that make this talking point a flawed premise at best and just an outright lie at worst. So before we go into the actual offense, it's called the pinch post since clearly you and ednksu don't remember, let's talk about the set up of this absurd point.

You guys say that Brad saved Frank's offense, do you think Frank put in the entire offense without the help & consultation of his assistants? Then one day a half season after his supposed shitty offense took the team to a 2 seed and the elite 8 he decided to cede all control and let Brad completely take over. If this absurd scenario makes sense to you and you think this happened let's go to point two.

Brad didn't invent the pinch post, I learned about it at a high school coaching convention several years ago. We were running elements of it every year before the mid season switch, that's why it was relatively seamless to put it in before conference play started, many of the bigs actions were similar.

What happened is that we were struggling without Curt, Brad recommended we do the pinch post, Frank agreed.


"Brad's offense" didn't save Frank, that is highly inaccurate

Yeah you're totally wrong.  The Pinch post pinwheel was Brad's.  End of story.  Frank was not running that and turned to Brad to install that, please go replay post game interviews right around when Pullen was coming back from his suspension (off hand I think).  No one is saying Brad ran the team or totally ran the offense.  People are saying Frank turned to a better offensive system than his owned and helped to work it into a team that made a great couple runs.  So yeah, you're either wrong about, your now convoluted, point, or are projecting a rage strawman into what I'm saying. 

[nicname]

I'm not going to quote the smorgasbord of posts in MIR's last reply/ quote, but he's right. If anything it was a good job of coaching by both Frank and Brad at the time. This whole idea of black and white, or crediting one guy necessitates trashing someone else is ridiculous. Like literally ridiculous, as in when you do it you're deserving of ridicule. Which sucks, because it is basically what half the post around here are. 

[ednksu]

I'm not going to quote the smorgasbord of posts in MIR's last reply/ quote, but he's right. If anything it was a good job of coaching by both Frank and Brad at the time. This whole idea of black and white, or crediting one guy necessitates trashing someone else is ridiculous. Like literally ridiculous, as in when you do it you're deserving of ridicule. Which sucks, because it is basically what half the post around here are.

So it was all lies that Brad pushed the pinwheel?  GMAFB you people are nuts. 
No one is saying its black and white.  It took a lot of humility for Frank to allow Brad to step up and install the offense like he did. Both coaches worked that system pretty damn well.

[Cire]

Undy sold pp to Frank after asprilla left and we had no bigs.

[ednksu]

Undy sold pp to Frank after asprilla left and we had no bigs.

DING!

[Tobias]

Our Fanbase Is So Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  Sigh.

Yeah, like guys predicting a Sweet 16 

[ksupamplemousse]

I'm not going to quote the smorgasbord of posts in MIR's last reply/ quote, but he's right. If anything it was a good job of coaching by both Frank and Brad at the time. This whole idea of black and white, or crediting one guy necessitates trashing someone else is ridiculous. Like literally ridiculous, as in when you do it you're deserving of ridicule. Which sucks, because it is basically what half the post around here are.

Agreed. The assertion that taking advice from assistants somehow makes you an inferior head coach is just the most rough ridin' asinine thing ever. Frank hired good assistants who had a plethora of basketball knowledge, and instead of being a prideful bad person, he took some of their advice to heart and it worked out well.

[PowercatPat]

I upgraded oscar from awful hire to average college coach 3 months ago.

The problem I have is that there were probably 6 great hires that we could have made at the time.

1. Larry Brown (didn't think he was available)
2. Gregg Marshall (thought he was available and wanted him badly)
3. Lon Kruger        (not sure if available but would have liked for us to go after him)
4. Jankovich   (thought he was available but he took an assistant job to the legend Larry Brown)
5. Brad Underwood (available and an extremely easy hire).
6. Doug Gottlieb   (available and would have recruited more talent to K-State than we have ever seen).

I also was interested in Brad Stevens and Tad Boyle but I don't think either would have came to Manhattan.

Anyhow I am still mad but have gained enough appreciation for oscar to realize that he does a good job with some things. I hate him in press conferences and in game coaching decisions, but he does teach an offensive system that works well at times. He also has apparently given the defense to someone who knows how to coach defense.

Jankovich? Really? I doubt he would have even taken us to the tournament last year.

I was on #teamUnderwood as soon as Frank left, but I got ridiculed for it by some of you.

[Pett]

oscar Weber....1 win last 7 NCAA tournament games

[nicname]

I'm not going to quote the smorgasbord of posts in MIR's last reply/ quote, but he's right. If anything it was a good job of coaching by both Frank and Brad at the time. This whole idea of black and white, or crediting one guy necessitates trashing someone else is ridiculous. Like literally ridiculous, as in when you do it you're deserving of ridicule. Which sucks, because it is basically what half the post around here are.

So it was all lies that Brad pushed the pinwheel?  GMAFB you people are nuts. 
No one is saying its black and white.  It took a lot of humility for Frank to allow Brad to step up and install the offense like he did. Both coaches worked that system pretty damn well.

But what MIR was saying is that it wasn't some overnight overhaul or "installing" of anything. They'd been doing it for years, only at more limited increments. I'd agree it took some humility on Frank's part, but probably less than one might imagine. Basically two coaches getting together and figuring out a game plan that best suited their team moving forward at a critical point in their season.

[MakeItRain]

Undy sold pp to Frank after asprilla left and we had no bigs.

DING!

Are you trolling or have the world's worst comprehension? Cire is agreeing with my post. To recap slowly.

mixedberrycrunch Said Brad's offense saved Frank
I said that offense, called the pinch post, was not Brad's offense people ran it before he was a coach, & he recommended it to Frank who said yes.
you found some weird way to disagree with what I told you
cire posted this and you agreed
 

[Cire]

oscar Weber....1 win last 7 NCAA tournament games

Oh my

[Winters]

oscar Weber....1 win last 7 NCAA tournament games

awful