Not an UnderStatenment, Cats take a turnover for the worse; WVU 2 ADV

[sys]

I think the term you are getting at is "close".  That's a dangerous term.  There is no value in it.  It is not a future predictor of success.

that's not at all true.  margin of victory (margin of loss) is a very good predictor of success (lack of success).

[420seriouscat69]

This loss was not oscar's fault. He can't help that his Seniors are so shitty and control touch fouls. This game has turned for the worse. eff defense!

[catzacker]

I think the term you are getting at is "close".  That's a dangerous term.  There is no value in it.  It is not a future predictor of success.

that's not at all true.  margin of victory (margin of loss) is a very good predictor of success (lack of success).

margin of loss is not an indicator of future wins.  and if it isn't an indicator of future success, then there is nothing good about losing close.

[sys]

margin of loss is not an indicator of future wins.  and if it isn't an indicator of future success, then there is nothing good about losing close.

it's the fundamental basis of every predictive system in sports.

[catzacker]

margin of loss is not an indicator of future wins.  and if it isn't an indicator of future success, then there is nothing good about losing close.

it's the fundamental basis of every predictive system in sports.

ksu consistently losing close games, some nasa computer is going to spit out "hey, they're due"?  it won't say "ya know, there seems to be a pattern here."

what's predictive is that ksu will lose close games, not that they will win them.  And when they actually do win them, it won't be because they are due, it will be because it was an exception, not the rule.

[catzacker]

you can't have 40 data points all within a standard deviation and point to the one that is outside of it and say "see, predicted that one".

[sys]

margin of loss is not an indicator of future wins.  and if it isn't an indicator of future success, then there is nothing good about losing close.

it's the fundamental basis of every predictive system in sports.

ksu consistently losing close games, some nasa computer is going to spit out "hey, they're due"?  it won't say "ya know, there seems to be a pattern here."

what's predictive is that ksu will lose close games, not that they will win them.  And when they actually do win them, it won't be because they are due, it will be because it was an exception, not the rule.

zacker, any team that plays close games will win some and will lose some.  that's the nature of close games.  any team that loses by large margins will lose all of those games.  any team that wins by large margins will win all of those games.

since how a team has played in the past is strongly correlated with how they will continue to play, mov is a good predictor.


you're normally more fun to argue with than this.

[catzacker]

great.  we're close.  we're due.  all these close games will eventually lead to a win.  they just have to.  have to.

[Powercat Posse]

Meh. Just as some overreacted positivity I'm not surprised this string of games is causing the negative side to come out. This is still a .500ish league team on the bubble.

3 weeks ago, I said we really needed to go 4-2 over these past 3 wks.  So I too thought we would get 1 of these road games and wasn't expecting it to be Isu.   I wasn't mad for 2 seconds after we loss in Ames.   I knew we let one slip away in Austin, but 10 minutes after the game was over, I had another game on TV.   Today, I haven't been able to watch much of the KU/UT or OU/Isu games because I am frustrated how we did not pull this game out.   

I mentioned how bad WV defense is and in the 3 home conf games, they were giving up 1.19 ppp.    So to shoot almost 66% eFG the first 10 min of the 1st hf, then to only shoot under 24% eFG the 2nd 10 minutes was upsetting.   Then the great FG shooting/poor FT shooting/careless TOs of the 2nd half has me ready for a drink   

[kso_FAN]

great.  we're close.  we're due.  all these close games will eventually lead to a win.  they just have to.  have to.

I forgot how ridiculous some of Wooly's teams were. His last year 5 of 6 Big 12 road losses were by 2, 4, 2, 3, and 1 points. Plus a 1 point loss at Washington St and an OT loss at N. Illinois.

[sonofdaxjones]

Yet just two years ago we went 10-9 against Big 12 competition, including losing to ku, Iowa State, Baylor and OU at home, and getting absolutely smoked in the first game of the Big 12 tourney by Scott Drew,  and the Frankites were all, "don't worry about it, we'll make the tourney". 

Now the same dudes completely melt down.

Sad

[420seriouscat69]

'Zacker went into hiding and now he's back. HOW CONVENIENT!

[Trogdor]

Good thing is that we have a whole week off to realize how much we suck

[sys]

great.  we're close.  we're due.  all these close games will eventually lead to a win.  they just have to.  have to.

i think you're being obtuse (whether deliberately so or not).  i started with the fact that kstate had lost those three games as a given.  the comparison is not to an alternate reality where kstate won 2 of 3, it is to other ways that kstate might have lost the same three games.  _fan said something to the effect that the way kstate lost was particularly disappointing.  my response was concerned with this remark.

no one (me) is saying that losing three close games is good because it means kstate is "due".  no one is stating that losing close games is better than winning.  the only thing being said is that losing close is better than losing big.

[ChiComCat]

Yet just two years ago we went 10-9 against Big 12 competition, including losing to ku, Iowa State, Baylor and OU at home, and getting absolutely smoked in the first game of the Big 12 tourney by Scott Drew,  and the Frankites were all, "don't worry about it, we'll make the tourney". 

Now the same dudes completely melt down.

Sad

The year we had 3 top 10 wins including 2 on the road?  Crazy that I felt more confident about that year

[CyberToothCat]

I think we might have won today. I was just looking at our remaining schedule on the official site, and it says that we beat WVU 71-81 today. Nice.

[sonofdaxjones]

Yet just two years ago we went 10-9 against Big 12 competition, including losing to ku, Iowa State, Baylor and OU at home, and getting absolutely smoked in the first game of the Big 12 tourney by Scott Drew,  and the Frankites were all, "don't worry about it, we'll make the tourney". 

Now the same dudes completely melt down.

Sad

The year we had 3 top 10 wins including 2 on the road?  Crazy that I felt more confident about that year

We don't have any quality wins this year? 

This is a tough league, as I type this Texas is beating ku by 14 in Austin, and ISU is probably going to beat OU in Ames. 

K-State could have coasted into the NCAA tourney with a much higher seed two years ago, but Frank and company pissed down their leg regularly all year . . . AT HOME.

[catzacker]

who gives a eff about Frank?  jesus dax.  you interject worthless rough ridin' bullshit into nearly every conversation.  you rough ridin' make up stupid crap that never happened to prove some point that no one gave a eff about to begin with. 

shouldn't you be arguing with some ku fan over where donations should be put on financial statements or something?

[sonofdaxjones]

who gives a eff about Frank?  jesus dax.  you interject worthless rough ridin' bullshit into nearly every conversation.  you rough ridin' make up stupid crap that never happened to prove some point that no one gave a eff about to begin with. 

shouldn't you be arguing with some ku fan over where donations should be put on financial statements or something?

STFU, you show up out of the blue to rain on the parade like a little pussy . . . as always.  Never happened? So we didn't lose 4 times at home two years ago, we didn't get run out of the Sprint Center by effing Scott Drew two years ago?  You never have anything to add except your cry baby "I wish Frank was still here" bullshit . . . when you bother to to show up that is.

[yoga-like_abana]

We are a decent team, not good and when they make so many dumb mistakes this should be expected


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Powercat Posse]

I agree with Sys that being competitive in losing these 3 road games is a nice sign.... especially the losses in Ames and Austin.   I was very impressed we battled back twice in the 2nd half in Ames down double digits.    Even today, as mad as I am about the loss, we did not play very well at all IMO and it was a 1 pt game late vs a team that was 4-4 in the conf so far.      In the past, we have had teams that didn't play well on the road and there was not much drama left with under 4 minutes to play. 

It wont be easy but if this team can go 8-1 at home, we should be able to get 1 B12 road win and get double digit conf wins

[ChiComCat]

I don't know what you are really arguing Dax.  If you are trying to say this team will get in and be higher seed than two years ago, I completely disagree.  Still enough games for the cats to do it though and I hope I'm wrong.  This isn't a Frank/oscar thing, its comparing two vastly different resumes.

Losing close games can either be a sign that coaches/players aren't good down the stretch or that we are close.  With this young of a team, I'm not terribly concerned.  If it doesn't improve, Wooly comparisons will be apt.

[Cire]

This is oscar Weber.  Enough talent to be respectable at home.  Will not win on the road

[nicname]

   Big 12    Pct    Streak    Overall    Pct    Streak
Kansas             7-1    1.000    W7    16-4    .800    W7
Texas             6-2    .714    W5    16-4    .800    W5
Oklahoma             6-3    .667    L1    17-5    .773    L1
Kansas State     5-4    .556    L1    15-7    .682    L1
West Virginia     5-4    .556    W2    13-9    .591    W2
Iowa State     4-4    .500    W1    16-4    .800    W1
Oklahoma State  4-4    .500    L2    16-5    .762    L2
Texas Tech     3-6    .333    W1    11-11    .500    W1
Baylor             2-6    .250    W1    14-7    .667    W1
TCU                     0-8    .000    L8    9-11    .450    L8

Frustrating not to get at least one of those last 3 on the road. The players/coaches are the ones who should really be frustrated, and having a long week to stew over it should be a good thing. The extra time helped the football teams in a similar situation, we'll see how the basketball team responds. 

It's like they've played "just bad enough" to lose these games on the road.  They'll have sluggish, lazy stretches, play with intensity and focus to get back in it, but make mind-bogglingly bad mistakes in crunch time.

5-4? That's about right, but I agree with _FAN, you get the feeling that it could have easily been better.

[michigancat]

Got a lot of good looks today. I wish we tried to run more often.

Also, this team is perfectly fine at close games. OSU and OU were very nice close wins.