Idealistic simpleton, now a man of iron will in the face of the cold stark . . .

[sonofdaxjones]

realities of his position.

But alas Obamabot Nation wanted so desperately to believe the long dead Hope and Change thingy.

http://nytimes.com/2014/01/16/us/obamas-path-from-critic-to-defender-of-spying.html?_r=0

[sonofdaxjones]

The moveon.org periodic spot check says they moved completely away from caring about the onslaught on civil liberties, a torch they carried far and wide during the previous administration.   To only caring about propagating the ideology of the current administration and pet social-welfare issues.

[CNS]

We are pretty screwed on this spying stuff.  Most politicians seem ok with it.  Can't imagine that enough new ones could be voted in to get rid of it before the are converted in their belief as well. 

Only chance is a court ruling, imo. 

[Dugout DickStone]

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

[bubbles4ksu]

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

the intelligence community gets them in a dark room and asks them whether they want civil liberties or the blood of 9/11 2.0 on their hands. also, campaign finances aka military-industrial-dax complex.

[sonofdaxjones]

But Hope and Change everybody!!

[bubbles4ksu]

if i didn't know better i'd say you were more concerned about obama being wrong than about american civil liberties, dax.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

Gary Johnson would tell the DI to go eff themselves.

[Cartierfor3]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

[Dugout DickStone]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

This will be prime GOP strategy in next election.  Obama's flip is startling if not predictable.

[Cartierfor3]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

This will be prime GOP strategy in next election.  Obama's flip is startling if not predictable.

Man if these numbskulls try and run Christie out there....... I will be thoroughly disappointed

[bubbles4ksu]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

here's the vital difference:

[democrat shits on civil liberties]
'publicans: "see how wrong you were about this guy, libtards!"

[republican shits on civil liberties]
dems: "warm up the lawsuits, [redacted]. this is unamerican."

[0.42]

We are pretty screwed on this spying stuff.  Most politicians seem ok with it.  Can't imagine that enough new ones could be voted in to get rid of it before the are converted in their belief as well. 

Only chance is a court ruling, imo.

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

the intelligence community gets them in a dark room and asks them whether they want civil liberties or the blood of 9/11 2.0 on their hands. also, campaign finances aka military-industrial-dax complex.

I think there was a slight hope that the tech community (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, etc) might be outraged enough because of the hit to their bottom lines from foreign distrust of their products that they'd be able to lobby hard enough to get some real reforms put in. However, in the end it seems that the defense/intelligence industries are more entrenched in Congress than the tech lobby and they've bought off enough people in positions of power like Dianne Feinstein and Mike Rogers to where any changes that are pushed through will be cosmetic at best.

[Dugout DickStone]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

This will be prime GOP strategy in next election.  Obama's flip is startling if not predictable.

Man if these numbskulls try and run Christie out there....... I will be thoroughly disappointed

Agreed.  This crap should be used to pound Hillary over the head as she was SOS.

[Cartierfor3]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

here's the vital difference:

[democrat shits on civil liberties]
'publicans: "see how wrong you were about this guy, libtards!"

[republican shits on civil liberties]
dems: "warm up the lawsuits, [redacted]. this is unamerican."

Bubbles you're missing the point and getting wrapped up in republican vs. democrat in all of this

[bubbles4ksu]

We are pretty screwed on this spying stuff.  Most politicians seem ok with it.  Can't imagine that enough new ones could be voted in to get rid of it before the are converted in their belief as well. 

Only chance is a court ruling, imo.

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

the intelligence community gets them in a dark room and asks them whether they want civil liberties or the blood of 9/11 2.0 on their hands. also, campaign finances aka military-industrial-dax complex.

I think there was a slight hope that the tech community (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, etc) might be outraged enough because of the hit to their bottom lines from foreign distrust of their products that they'd be able to lobby hard enough to get some real reforms put in. However, in the end it seems that the defense/intelligence industries are more entrenched in Congress than the tech lobby and they've bought off enough people in positions of power like Dianne Feinstein and Mike Rogers to where any changes that are pushed through will be cosmetic at best.

feinstein is a fascist and she doesn't know it. the intelligence committee doesn't provide ANY info to other congressmen.

[bubbles4ksu]

Pre election: "Obama wouldn't do that! He's all about civil liberties and a man of the people!"
Now: "Oh come on, every politician would do that stuff so its ok"

here's the vital difference:

[democrat shits on civil liberties]
'publicans: "see how wrong you were about this guy, libtards!"

[republican shits on civil liberties]
dems: "warm up the lawsuits, [redacted]. this is unamerican."

Bubbles you're missing the point and getting wrapped up in republican vs. democrat in all of this

i'm actually not though.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

We are pretty screwed on this spying stuff.  Most politicians seem ok with it.  Can't imagine that enough new ones could be voted in to get rid of it before the are converted in their belief as well. 

Only chance is a court ruling, imo.

There is not a politician alive willing to eff with the defense industry.

the intelligence community gets them in a dark room and asks them whether they want civil liberties or the blood of 9/11 2.0 on their hands. also, campaign finances aka military-industrial-dax complex.

I think there was a slight hope that the tech community (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, etc) might be outraged enough because of the hit to their bottom lines from foreign distrust of their products that they'd be able to lobby hard enough to get some real reforms put in. However, in the end it seems that the defense/intelligence industries are more entrenched in Congress than the tech lobby and they've bought off enough people in positions of power like Dianne Feinstein and Mike Rogers to where any changes that are pushed through will be cosmetic at best.

The government has too much control over all private enterprises for them to initiate any kind of resistance. 

[CNS]

But Hope and Change everybody!!

Dax, this is what prevents actual conversation.

[CNS]

Google isn't concerned about anyone pissed going to a competitor. 

If anything, they are publicly pissed about their customer's being pissed, but really not pissed and only showing as such to make the avg person think they are pissed.

[0.42]

Google isn't concerned about anyone pissed going to a competitor. 

Really? Because there's been some pretty serious talks about balkanizing the internet into individual nationwide servers like what North Korea and Iran have (Brazil's been pretty serious about this) and it stands to reason that if that happens there will also be a movement to phase out US products as much as possible. I don't think it's an inevitability but foreign companies will be--and already are--less willing to do business and form partnerships with US tech companies because they don't want to subject their materials to industrial espionage by the NSA. Google's got enough money in the bank to absorb that blow, but not every tech company is going to want to survive on mostly domestic sales alone.

If anything, they are publicly pissed about their customer's being pissed, but really not pissed and only showing as such to make the avg person think they are pissed.

On a domestic basis I think this is absolutely correct. Microsoft's been in bed with the NSA for years and they're only (sort of) trying to put an emphasis on personal software privacy and encryption now that people are pissed and don't trust them here. Basically they just want people to think Microsoft is sympathetic to the average consumer until said average consumer stops paying attention and the company then gives their encryption keys and back door information over to the NSA (again).

[CNS]

Google isn't concerned about anyone pissed going to a competitor. 

Really? Because there's been some pretty serious talks about balkanizing the internet into individual nationwide servers like what North Korea and Iran have (Brazil's been pretty serious about this) and it stands to reason that if that happens there will also be a movement to phase out US products as much as possible. I don't think it's an inevitability but foreign companies will be--and already are--less willing to do business and form partnerships with US tech companies because they don't want to subject their materials to industrial espionage by the NSA. Google's got enough money in the bank to absorb that blow, but not every tech company is going to want to survive on mostly domestic sales alone.

If anything, they are publicly pissed about their customer's being pissed, but really not pissed and only showing as such to make the avg person think they are pissed.

On a domestic basis I think this is absolutely correct. Microsoft's been in bed with the NSA for years and they're only (sort of) trying to put an emphasis on personal software privacy and encryption now that people are pissed and don't trust them here. Basically they just want people to think Microsoft is sympathetic to the average consumer until said average consumer stops paying attention and the company then gives their encryption keys and back door information over to the NSA (again).

I heard a report on NPR about a month ago about how the largest segment of growth online right now is south america and that is is projected to be something like 60% of worldwide online growth for the next decade or so.  The report went on to discuss how it was a bit of a problem because most of the countries have businesses outsourcing to other countries to get the needed resources to fuel this growth.  Yep, we are where the majority are flocking to.  Miami was specifically mentioned as growing quickly in all things tech because of the relative proximity, ease of the culture and language barrier, and the fact that it is still in the US and has access to the tech companies to partner with, the graduates to hire, and the infrastructure needed by these new tech biz's to do what they need to do. 

This was after the majority of the NSA stuff was outed.

Also, if the departmentalization does happen, Google will be in on that heavily, I would bet.  Either by starting up Google Brazil of by purchasing other companies which they have been very active in the last several years.