Author Topic: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread  (Read 14381 times)

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Offline Trogdor

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Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« on: January 09, 2014, 03:48:42 PM »
Kansas State @ Kansas

11 Jan, 2014  1:00pm Central
Allen Field House, Lawrence Kansas

Team Stats     
                              Kansas State         University of Kansas        
                              (12-3) (2-0)               (10-4) (1-0)
RPI                               43                              3

   Per Game
Points                             67.7                        78.6                       
Assists                            15.0                        15.6                         
FG %                              .419                        .498                         
FT %                              .642                        .689
3 Point %                        .304                        .341
3 Point FGM                      5.8                          5.2

Points Allowed                  58.0                        69.3
Def. FG %                       .392                        .410
Blocks                             2.8                          6.3
Steals                             6.7                          5.6
Rebounds                        38.1                        38.3
T.O Margin                      +1.7                        -2.3
Rebound Margin                +4.3                       +6.9
Scoring Margin                 +9.7                        +9.3



    Team Leaders (Per Game)
                           K-State                                      KU
Points            M.Foster           14.1                  A.Wiggins        15.3
                    T.Gipson           11.9                  P.Ellis              13.8

Rebounds       T.Gipson            6.5                   J.Embiid           7.2
                    S.Southwell       5.0                   P.Ellis              6.9

Assists          J.Thomas           4.3                   N.Tharpe          5.1
                   S.Southwell        3.3                   F.Mason           2.7




Top 3 wins:          K-State                           KU
                            *#21 Gonzaga (14-2)         *#4 Duke (12-3)                  *Neutral Court
                            George Wash. (12-2)         *New Mex. (11-3)
                            #6  Ok. St. (13-2)              Oklahoma (12-3)




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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2014, 03:52:42 PM »
Good idea. Needs better stats.

Offline Bookcat

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2014, 03:36:40 AM »
If it weren't for the mental block, the numbers say we should win there Saturday, but we probably won't because they'll try too hard and play out of position...get behind..and game over.

Offline CHONGS

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2014, 08:02:47 AM »
If it weren't for the mental block, the numbers say we should win there Saturday, but we probably won't because they'll try too hard and play out of position...get behind..and game over.
Which numbers in particular? 

Offline #LIFE

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2014, 08:43:11 AM »
NA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA!


THUNDER!!!

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2014, 09:14:20 AM »
Tale of the 4 Factors tape:



I talk about #bruceketball and 3PT% often, but after looking at the number in this game my biggest concern is our ability to make 2s. Last year in Lawrence KU outshot us on 2s 54% to 38%. Once again KU has a great 2PT% defenses (44%) and 7 out of the last 10 years they have finished in the Top 5 nationally in 2PT defense. KU is blocking 16% of 2PT shots attempted against them because Self defenses always protects the paint, especially in AFH, and if we don't get some production in the paint then we will be in trouble. A lot of this falls on Gip being able to get some points in there, but secondarily our drivers like Shane, Westicles, and Marcus must finish in the paint as well. Our goal should probably be to shoot within 2-3% of KU on 2s and at least get to our average of 48%.

A strength for us should be winning the TO% battle, but we have had our share of bad games, and against better teams we haven't forced TOs at a high rate. Still, given KU's inability to protect the ball we should be able to force around 20%, the question will be whether we can keep ours down to 15-16% and if the TOs we allow lead to lay-ups/dunks in transition.

It will be interesting to see the battle of the boards, both teams with advantages on the season of 6-7%. This will truly test our small line-up and we'll have to see if our double swing forward line-up of Southwell and Westicles can hold their own against KU's bigs. The Cats have to try to stay even here.

There is always a lot of talk from K-State fans about FTs and fouls against KU and in some cases that has been true (09 and 11), but in most cases FT rate has been pretty even.

In the other thread I mentioned a high 3PT% (45%+) as a big key for this game and while it might not have to be in the 40s it probably does need to be in the upper 30s. I simply don't think we'll out play KU on 2PT shots so we'll have to make up for that on 3s.

I still think this game is too much for our team at this point. KU isn't the greatest match-up for us and it took a fluke in the mid 2000s for K-State to win there. I don't see another fluke like that coming tomorrow and I don't think this year's #bruceketball is quite ready to win this onem though I think it will be a little bit closer than my initial projection.

Cats 62 - Hawks 70

Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2014, 09:25:52 AM »
Straight to bottom :sadpeek:

Offline PowercatPat

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2014, 10:04:33 AM »
I don't like how we match up with them, especially down low.

Offline LickNeckey

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2014, 10:07:29 AM »
I don't like how we match up with them, especially down low.

Now that's the hard hitting analysis I pay for.   :thumbs:

Offline Trogdor

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, 10:13:24 AM »
If that Cat defense can dropkick the Hawk offense, then the game will be interesting
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Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2014, 11:35:54 AM »
Destroy them in the turnover battle, be competitive in the offensive rebounding margin. Go home with a victory. It is that simple.

Offline slimz

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2014, 12:05:31 PM »

[stats blah blah blah]

Cats 62 - Hawks 70

Squawk outed. 

Offline Steffy08

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2014, 02:13:21 PM »
oscar will use same strategy as he used last year against ku, which is to bomb away from 3.  I like the strategy.  There is no reason to spend the first 10 minutes of the game learning that Gipson and co can't score down low, or even draw fouls.  We have to hit our threes, play typical solid defense, and fight like hell to stay even on the boards.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2014, 02:35:38 PM »
oscar will use same strategy as he used last year against ku, which is to bomb away from 3.  I like the strategy.  There is no reason to spend the first 10 minutes of the game learning that Gipson and co can't score down low, or even draw fouls.  We have to hit our threes, play typical solid defense, and fight like hell to stay even on the boards.
That has a lot to do with not getting into the interior of their defense. But Jevon, tho

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2014, 02:37:28 PM »
oscar will use same strategy as he used last year against ku, which is to bomb away from 3.  I like the strategy.  There is no reason to spend the first 10 minutes of the game learning that Gipson and co can't score down low, or even draw fouls.  We have to hit our threes, play typical solid defense, and fight like hell to stay even on the boards.

That should not be the strategy for this year's team. We're not a good shooting team from behind the arc. Not saying that Foster and Shane (Nigel too if he ever gets in the game) shouldn't shoot a healthy number of threes, but that is not our strength this year. If they get a bunch of long rebounds off of misses, then they have the athleticism to murder us in the transition game.
This is who I am...I have no problem crying. - Jerome Tang

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 02:44:37 PM »
oscar will use same strategy as he used last year against ku, which is to bomb away from 3.  I like the strategy.  There is no reason to spend the first 10 minutes of the game learning that Gipson and co can't score down low, or even draw fouls.  We have to hit our threes, play typical solid defense, and fight like hell to stay even on the boards.

That should not be the strategy for this year's team. We're not a good shooting team from behind the arc. Not saying that Foster and Shane (Nigel too if he ever gets in the game) shouldn't shoot a healthy number of threes, but that is not our strength this year. If they get a bunch of long rebounds off of misses, then they have the athleticism to murder us in the transition game.

I dont believe they are faster then us when we have Will off the court. Jevon is going to have to breakdown their defense, that is how we score. Jevon is special, no one will ever be able to neutralize his ability to drive.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2014, 01:27:50 PM »


The Sunflower Showdown comes to Manhattan featuring the 2 best shooting teams in the Big 12. We remember well what happened in Lawrence, and I don't expect a repeat performance of K-State's awful defense in Manhattan.

Key stats:

2PT shooting: It is no surprise that KU leads the league in 2PT shooting (55.6% Big 12) as Self coached teams generally shoot very well on 2s. However, it is a surprise to see K-State lead in 2PT% defense (42.9%), especially considering that K-State lacks shot blocking ability. KU is 2nd in 2PT% defense and shot blocking, while K-State is 3rd in 2PT% offense. K-State actually shot very well on 2s in Lawrence, hitting 53.8% even though KU blocked 15.4% of the 2PT attempts. The problem was KU hit 61.5% of theirs, including 73.9% in the first half as they raced out to a 45-28 lead. If the Cats give up nearly an 8% differential on 2PT shots again its likely KU will win going away. It is important to note that K-State's 2PT% defense at home is even more impressive, only allowing Big 12 opponents to shoot 36% on 2s in the OOD. The only Big 12 team to hit more than 35% of their 2s was OSU who made 47%, but the Cats held them to 40% in the 2nd half on 2s and no other team has hit 40% or better in a half at the OOD since that first half vs the Cowboys.

3PT shooting: As bad as the 2PT% differential was in Lawrence, 3PT% was even worse. KU made 8-18 (44%) while the Cats only made 1 of 11 attempts (9%). KU has been really good on 3PT shots in Big 12 play, leading the league at 41.8% while shooting 39% or better in 8 of their 10 Big 12 games. Their worst 3PT shooting on the road was at ISU (31%), otherwise they've been at least 40% in their other Big 12 road game. KU also leads the league in 3PT% defense, though teams still hit nearly 1/3 of their 3s against the Jayhawks. TCU was the only road opponent to hit more than 32% against KU's defense. Meanwhile, K-State has improved in Big 12 play, making 35% in league games and 38% in the OOD and 44% in the 1st half. K-State's 3PT defense is decent at 33% and in the OOD opponents have made 31% of their 3s. As for 3PTA%, only 28% of KU's shots are 3s while opponents take 35% of their attempts from 3. 32% of K-State's attempts are 3s while opponents only shoot 28.5% of their attempts from 3, which makes K-State's great 2PT% defense even more valuable.

TO%: Maybe the biggest surprise of the game in Lawrence was KU recording 0 TOs in the first half and finishing with a TO rate of only 11%, their best of the season. This is a team that has had a turnover rate of at least 20% in nearly half their games and is worst in the league at 20.2%. In addition, KU has been really bad on the road, with a rate of 24% against Top 100 teams in road games. With K-State's TO problems this year, they have been able to gain an advantage at home, and force teams into a 19% TO rate in the OOD. The Cats are also coming off one of their best games of the year after forcing 28% against Texas.

OR%: KU is one of the best rebounding teams in the league and K-State sits in the middle. While KU didn't have an outlandish OR% against K-State in Lawrence (33%) they were impressive in keeping K-State off the offensive glass, holding the Wildcats to a season worst 22.6%. The Cats are nearly even in oboarding in Big 12 games, while KU holds a differential of 8%, which is 2nd in the league. K-State was able to overcome getting beat on the offensive glass by Texas because of being great in other factors and the Cats have been out-oboarded slightly in home Big 12 games, 37.5% to 33.5%.

FTR: This is the area K-State fans (and Big 12 fans in general) like to talk about, but it will likely be a non-issue in this game. Not surprisingly, KU has a high FT rate (45.9% Big 12), but they also send opponents to the FT line more than any Big 12 team (46.5%) which is by far the worst rate any Bill Self team has allowed. K-State probably won't gain a big advantage here (barring KU being forced to foul late), but the Cats should be able to stay even.

Conclusion If the Texas game is any indication the week off has helped the energy of this team, and even in down years Weber was pretty good at knocking off Top 10 teams at Illinois, earning 5 Top 10 wins even in his last 3 seasons. The crowd was great vs Texas and I expect it to be even better Monday night. Foster's confidence after an impressive outing is high, Southwell and/or Gip are due for a nice game, and sleeveless Will continues to hit some shots. This game will be close and come down to the under 4 timeout, this time I think K-State makes the plays to win it.

Cats 68 - Hawks 65

Offline Pete

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2014, 01:30:27 PM »
Holy crap, Fan has zeal!

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2014, 01:31:20 PM »
Holy crap, Fan has zeal!

Why not?!?!

#1cat

Offline Pete

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Offline scottwildcat

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2014, 01:39:01 PM »
Wow _FAN pointing to center field and calling his shot!!

Offline Pete

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2014, 01:40:09 PM »
I am rooting my ass off for sleeveless Will have one final "great game" against KU, and we win, and sleeveless Will to forever be remembered for that game.

 

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2014, 03:25:43 PM »
Would KU have used some time in practice to prepare for us this week? Does that happen in college basketball? They should have easily handled WVU at home, but obviously did not. Any chance it's because of something like that?

And obviously we played against UT like we had been preparing for them all week. Which may not be a bad thing because if our gameplan was to slow down their center and prepare to shoot from the outside, that game plan will translate very well. But it still makes me think we're going to lose, just like everything ever makes me think.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2014, 03:56:50 PM »
I hope we are prepared for the triangle and two, good chance we see it tomorrow.

Offline ljmhawk2

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Re: Bruceketball vs. Hawks game Analysis/Discussion Thread
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2014, 04:00:32 PM »
I hope we are prepared for the triangle and two, good chance we see it tomorrow.

why would KU play triangle and 2? basically it's foster and everyone else and wiggins will shut him down like he did in lawrence.