Author Topic: The Distance Running Thread  (Read 142724 times)

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Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1000 on: March 02, 2016, 01:58:23 PM »
Nipple update: Ran 8 miles on Monday and last night. I plan on running 8 more tonight. I think my nipples have hardened from the initial rawing point and are tougher now. All is good. Also, is it normal to have a drenched shirt after that? I mean, it looks like I jumped into a pool. Fanning's sweat a lot, but it's starting to make my shirts weigh heavy on the run.  :curse:

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1001 on: March 02, 2016, 04:01:10 PM »
ok, stitches. i'm sure it's been discussed in this thread, but any pro tips? kinda popped up recently, never been this bad before.
You're breathing in stride... Every exhale is on the same side foot strike. Three in two out. Two in three out. It will ease the stitches mid run without having to slow your pace.

Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1002 on: March 02, 2016, 04:10:08 PM »
Is stitches some sort of hayseed word for cramps or something?

Offline 'taterblast

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1003 on: March 02, 2016, 04:17:38 PM »
Is stitches some sort of hayseed word for cramps or something?

no, idiot

(but yes, diaphragm cramps)

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1004 on: March 02, 2016, 07:29:13 PM »
So "eating" during a halfM is a good thing? The only half I raced was last year and I really crashed around Mile 11. And I was starving after the race. But I am also trying to figure out how to eat and race at the same time, particularly while somewhat delirious, without choking to death. Im afraid if I stop even briefly to walk, it's gonna be super hard to start up again. Suggestions?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1005 on: March 02, 2016, 08:17:36 PM »
popping some gummies or a gu packet slows down your gait for a moment but it won't cost you anything worthwhile. Walking for a few steps while drinking Gatorade or water at one of the checkpoints has never hurt me. My PR is 1:50, and I'm shooting for 1:45 in April. I had a hard time starting back up running during the one marathon I did several years back, but marathons are a different animal.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1006 on: March 02, 2016, 08:36:19 PM »
If you crashed at mile 11, you likely outran your training.

How long was your training plan? What was your longest run? Weekly average?

Most of us enter our first half marathon woefully under trained and the training we did was at a higher than needed pace or effort.

Offline CopperBowl

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1007 on: March 02, 2016, 08:43:09 PM »

Nipple update: Ran 8 miles on Monday and last night. I plan on running 8 more tonight. I think my nipples have hardened from the initial rawing point and are tougher now. All is good. Also, is it normal to have a drenched shirt after that? I mean, it looks like I jumped into a pool. Fanning's sweat a lot, but it's starting to make my shirts weigh heavy on the run.  :curse:

Razor sharp nipples? Make sure you warn Mrs Fanning.

Are you treadmill running?

Buy some running singlets that show off your guns.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1008 on: March 02, 2016, 08:46:09 PM »
Yeah. Ms. Wacky works for under armor, so that's what I wear, but for some reason I've still had problems. Treadmill due to the weather and the treadmill tv for March basketball. That will change soon. It's amazing how carefree a run can be when there's a game on. I do miss the river walk run tho


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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1009 on: March 02, 2016, 09:20:01 PM »
:impatient:

Offline CopperBowl

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1010 on: March 03, 2016, 05:59:02 AM »
Yeah. Ms. Wacky works for under armor, so that's what I wear, but for some reason I've still had problems. Treadmill due to the weather and the treadmill tv for March basketball. That will change soon. It's amazing how carefree a run can be when there's a game on. I do miss the river walk run tho


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So yes, because you create no headwind like you do running outdoors, your sweat rate could easily be measured in buckets. Mine is.

Offline tdaver

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1011 on: March 03, 2016, 08:15:12 AM »
Yeah. Ms. Wacky works for under armor, so that's what I wear, but for some reason I've still had problems. Treadmill due to the weather and the treadmill tv for March basketball. That will change soon. It's amazing how carefree a run can be when there's a game on. I do miss the river walk run tho


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It's amazing how carefree a run can be when outside enjoying the world. 

Offline The Whale

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1012 on: March 03, 2016, 09:56:12 AM »
If you crashed at mile 11, you likely outran your training.

How long was your training plan? What was your longest run? Weekly average?

Most of us enter our first half marathon woefully under trained and the training we did was at a higher than needed pace or effort.

What's an ideal amount of training mileage for a half?  The plan I'm following will be ~250 miles, over 13 weeks.

Offline 420seriouscat69

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1013 on: March 03, 2016, 10:52:45 AM »
Yeah. Ms. Wacky works for under armor, so that's what I wear, but for some reason I've still had problems. Treadmill due to the weather and the treadmill tv for March basketball. That will change soon. It's amazing how carefree a run can be when there's a game on. I do miss the river walk run tho


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's amazing how carefree a run can be when outside enjoying the world.
Very true.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1014 on: March 03, 2016, 11:31:22 AM »
If you crashed at mile 11, you likely outran your training.

How long was your training plan? What was your longest run? Weekly average?

Most of us enter our first half marathon woefully under trained and the training we did was at a higher than needed pace or effort.

I closely followed the Higdon "Novice I" plan. My training took me all the way up to 12 miles towards the end. I didn't have any difficulty with that distance-wise. My crash during the race wasn't due to distance - it was the pace. No training regimen I'm aware of calls for you to run 10+ miles at race pace.

I'm pretty sure I went out the gate too fast and couldn't sustain it for 13 miles. I'm not sure if starting slower would have netted me a better time or not. I'm curious if re-fueling would help me or if it might do more harm than good.

I also only drank water/Gatorade at maybe 3 of the mile markers because I didn't want to slow down. So I end up sloshing most of it all over myself and the drinking throws off my breathing.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 02:14:01 PM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1015 on: March 03, 2016, 11:35:11 AM »
Also, I've found that treadmill running can be good for losing weight, but totally blows as race conditioning. This winter when it was colder/darker I spent a lot of time on the treadmill. I'd run 4-5 miles at a fast pace. When I started running outside, I felt like I really regressed for the first couple weeks.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1016 on: March 03, 2016, 02:55:29 PM »
For treadmill running, if you can increase the incline to 3 or 3.5 percent, you are actually much closer to outdoor running conditions. Most treadmill runners at my gym are running at 0 percent, which is a joke that is nothing like running outdoors.

The same thing happened to me hitting the wall during my marathon. I'd never run a distance longer than a 10k before, and the pace group leader at the KC Marathon apparently couldn't hold his adrenaline and decided to increase our 10 minute per mile pace to 8 minutes and change. My buddy and I were hurting by mile 15, and dying by mile 20.

Use something to watch your pace on race day. I have usually begun the first mile or two of a half running much slower than my race goal pace. For instance, when I did a  1:50 half, I started in the 9:30 to 9:45 mile for about a mile, picked it up to under 9 for the next mile, then went pretty close to 8 the rest of the way.  I found I had a ton of energy when I let my body slowly warm up during a race like that.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1017 on: March 03, 2016, 05:59:03 PM »
For treadmill running, if you can increase the incline to 3 or 3.5 percent, you are actually much closer to outdoor running conditions. Most treadmill runners at my gym are running at 0 percent, which is a joke that is nothing like running outdoors.
Unless you're running sub 7 m/m, training on a treadmill isn't going to have that much effect on your pace.

Science: http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/biomechanics-expert-debunks-treadmill-running-myths

Running friend of mine does the majority of his training on the treadmill. He's a multiple sub 20 hour 100 mile finisher. Still holds the Missouri 50 mile record.


http://www.ozarkcountytimes.com/news/article_60841b2c-f042-11e0-9008-0019bb30f31a.html

Quote
The same thing happened to me hitting the wall during my marathon. I'd never run a distance longer than a 10k before, and the pace group leader at the KC Marathon apparently couldn't hold his adrenaline and decided to increase our 10 minute per mile pace to 8 minutes and change. My buddy and I were hurting by mile 15, and dying by mile 20.
Unless you personally know the pacer and trust his/her pace, then forego the pace group. Run with your watch and heart rate monitor. That will keep your pace in check.

Quote
Use something to watch your pace on race day. I have usually begun the first mile or two of a half running much slower than my race goal pace. For instance, when I did a  1:50 half, I started in the 9:30 to 9:45 mile for about a mile, picked it up to under 9 for the next mile, then went pretty close to 8 the rest of the way.  I found I had a ton of energy when I let my body slowly warm up during a race like that.
Definitely great advice. I take it easy for the first mile or so and run negative splits. Works for my 1:48 finish.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1018 on: March 03, 2016, 06:19:29 PM »
If you crashed at mile 11, you likely outran your training.

How long was your training plan? What was your longest run? Weekly average?

Most of us enter our first half marathon woefully under trained and the training we did was at a higher than needed pace or effort.

I closely followed the Higdon "Novice I" plan. My training took me all the way up to 12 miles towards the end. I didn't have any difficulty with that distance-wise. My crash during the race wasn't due to distance - it was the pace. No training regimen I'm aware of calls for you to run 10+ miles at race pace.

I'm pretty sure I went out the gate too fast and couldn't sustain it for 13 miles. I'm not sure if starting slower would have netted me a better time or not. I'm curious if re-fueling would help me or if it might do more harm than good.

I also only drank water/Gatorade at maybe 3 of the mile markers because I didn't want to slow down. So I end up sloshing most of it all over myself and the drinking throws off my breathing.
Higdon makes great "get you to the finish" plans but you definitely have to learn to pace yourself on race day. I certainly wouldn't blame the mile 11 wall on in-race nutrition. As you build your base mileage over the years, you'll progress to some other training plans that have more tempo runs over greater distance. You are correct regarding race pace at greater than ten miles. However, I'm a firm believer in 14-mile slow runs in prep for the half marathon somewhere around week 9 or 10 of a 14-week build. I also like to drop a 10K and 10-mile race in the training plan.


For fuel, you simply don't need anything for a two-hour pace or less if you've been training aerobically (and you should). Our body stores roughly 2000 calories of glycogen and 10,000+ calories of fat. As long as you are training at low efforts the majority of the time (70-80% of volume), you should be allowing your body to burn fat vice glycogen. On race day, your body is burning 800cal per hour at race pace. Even with no fat burning, you have ample glycogen in your body to sustain a two-hour run.


So, a sip of water every few miles should suffice. I personally like to take a Gu at the turning point just to keep the hunger pangs at bay until I get to the finish line. Yes, I'm hungry when I finish. I promptly throw down some fruit carbs and water. Then a full protein laden meal within the hour.


Steve Gangemi is one of my favorite doctors that writes about aerobic training: http://sock-doc.com/aerobic-vs-anaerobic-exercise/. Great five part series with links in each blog post to some great information on aerobic training. As you'll read there, it takes time to build a good aerobic base.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1019 on: March 03, 2016, 06:20:39 PM »
If you crashed at mile 11, you likely outran your training.

How long was your training plan? What was your longest run? Weekly average?

Most of us enter our first half marathon woefully under trained and the training we did was at a higher than needed pace or effort.

What's an ideal amount of training mileage for a half?  The plan I'm following will be ~250 miles, over 13 weeks.
Is this your first half? Have your raced many 10k distances? Read my two previous posts. It takes time to get the base and learn your race pace. Your plan has plenty of miles in it.

Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1020 on: March 03, 2016, 08:07:24 PM »
For treadmill running, if you can increase the incline to 3 or 3.5 percent, you are actually much closer to outdoor running conditions. Most treadmill runners at my gym are running at 0 percent, which is a joke that is nothing like running outdoors.
Unless you're running sub 7 m/m, training on a treadmill isn't going to have that much effect on your pace.

Science: http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/biomechanics-expert-debunks-treadmill-running-myths

Running friend of mine does the majority of his training on the treadmill. He's a multiple sub 20 hour 100 mile finisher. Still holds the Missouri 50 mile record.


http://www.ozarkcountytimes.com/news/article_60841b2c-f042-11e0-9008-0019bb30f31a.html

Quote
The same thing happened to me hitting the wall during my marathon. I'd never run a distance longer than a 10k before, and the pace group leader at the KC Marathon apparently couldn't hold his adrenaline and decided to increase our 10 minute per mile pace to 8 minutes and change. My buddy and I were hurting by mile 15, and dying by mile 20.
Unless you personally know the pacer and trust his/her pace, then forego the pace group. Run with your watch and heart rate monitor. That will keep your pace in check.

Quote
Use something to watch your pace on race day. I have usually begun the first mile or two of a half running much slower than my race goal pace. For instance, when I did a  1:50 half, I started in the 9:30 to 9:45 mile for about a mile, picked it up to under 9 for the next mile, then went pretty close to 8 the rest of the way.  I found I had a ton of energy when I let my body slowly warm up during a race like that.
Definitely great advice. I take it easy for the first mile or so and run negative splits. Works for my 1:48 finish.

Yeah, I don't know about the science but for me personally I improved my times dramatically by increasing the incline. Before that I always felt like I was simply picking my feet up and down.
I have no idea how people can push themselves 100 miles in a single race. My hats off to them.

Offline Missouriscribe

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1021 on: March 03, 2016, 08:23:26 PM »

Offline cDubya

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1022 on: March 03, 2016, 09:25:50 PM »
seen these?  Very wild:
http://www.nikeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Nike-LunarEpic-Flyknit-2.jpg

Nike seems to be on the spatting kick. Athletes, specifically football players, often tape their shoes up past the ankles for support, and Nike has build shoes for all sports to imitate that recently. Football cleats, soccer boots, and these runners that you linked to all look to be the same design, I corporation the spatting ankle support.

I haven't worn a pair, personally, but seems like a good design, in theory.

Offline IPA4Me

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1023 on: March 04, 2016, 04:35:58 AM »
I'm not sure I'd like them. I don't like socks on my ankles. Fairly certain that would annoy me.

Offline CopperBowl

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Re: The Distance Running Thread
« Reply #1024 on: March 04, 2016, 07:33:46 AM »
Lots of good runnin' advice going on up in here...

In the end, don't overthink it.  The best way to get faster is to simply run more, mostly slow, sometimes fast - preferably in the general conditions of most races; that is, outside with wind and hills and weather.