Basketball, a shirt tuck manifesto.

[wabash909]

This is real.

Basketball ambivalence.. Situation improving.

Earlier today I met five buddies for lunch in a big sports bar in Williamsburg, Virginia. We are all former federal investigators and all are Vietnam combat vets. One, an African American, is a former pole vaulter at Oregon, and all of us played organized sports at some level.

While enjoying beer and steaks, Arizona and Michigan were playing  basketball, while alongside a re-run of Ohio State and Michigan State was airing. I couldn't help but notice that all of us were mostly paying attention to a football game wherein the the outcome was known rather than a basketball game involving the country's top collegiate team; so I conducted an informal poll as to who routinely (often) watches basketball, college or pro? Not a single hand went up; nor did I raise mine.

As background, I went to KSU in the late 60's, and Jack Hartman was our coach. In four years, I did not miss a single game where I could help it, and afterwards I closely followed the career of Lon Kruger. Then, imperceptibly, I found that I did not care as much anymore about basketball, and although I read the morning paper (wherever ) to see how my school was doing on the hardwoods, it did not pain me to see the 'Cats lose as much as if it was a football game--when a loss could send me into a deep funk.

Now, why do some guys of my generation often shun watching basketball--especially pro ball? My non-empircal study today reflects that most of us feel the team-centered, play-by -the-rules basketball we knew and played in our youth has morphed into something else altogether. And although I can't quite put my finger on the precise reasons for our ambivalence, most of us believe that individual  "hot-doggism" today has taken over in some corners. Further, there are too many renegade coaches who specialize in exhibiting gross behavioral conduct that of course leads to rude and obnoxious behavior in their players. ("Character and fair play be damed; let's win this f...... ball game.")

So after reading the above, you might ask this old and proud K-Stater, "Well, now what did you think of Frank Martin?"

Easy answer, in three parts... I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.


And best wishes to Coach oscar Weber and his young team. A gentleman is now back at the helm, and  I'm again watching K-State basketball.

[michigancat]

"hot-doggism"

[Spracne]

I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.

[ednksu]

jfc

I wonder how many times the author included something about spicy latin flair and edited it out.

Also I wonder how he squares his circle with Bill Self and Tom Izzo how never cuss, yell, or bang clip boards, evar!

[chum1]

I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.

AND starts off with a statement that one of his buds is black.   

[j-dub]

this would have made me very  a couple years ago.

now.. 

[Cartierfor3]

this would have made me very  a couple years ago.

now.. 

you are hot-doggish on this blog

[puniraptor]

I can't wait till @luke finds this thread and just starts setting rough ridin' fires

[Havs]

My God, this is Morgan to McDermott all over again. 

[MakeItRain]

I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.

That post was filled with code

[wazucat]

A different tuck perspective, I was a student when Hartman coached as well, I hated loosing Frank, Bruceket ball sucks and I will never forgive Currie for not making the necessary relational changes to keep Frank around longer.  Between Kruger and Huggins, we were in purgatory and we are headed there again.

[MakeItRain]

A different tuck perspective, I was a student when Hartman coached as well, I hated loosing Frank, Bruceket ball sucks and I will never forgive Currie for not making the necessary relational changes to keep Frank around longer.  Between Kruger and Huggins, we were in purgatory and we are headed there again.

Tuck has nothing to do with age. The biggest tucks in the EMAW game; mike tuckfano, ksu winter, cocktail waitress in vegas, merv, et al are young enough to be your kids.

[MakeItRain]

Well maybe not cocktail waitress is vegas, she's like 40. Replace her with riley gates and that trenton kid.

[sonofdaxjones]

Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths.   There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.

Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life.   Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been  about.

I    at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths.   There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.

Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life.   Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been  about.

I    at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.

Jack Hartman was a SAINT! You son of a bitch.

[kim carnes]

Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths.   There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.

Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life.   Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been  about.

I    at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.

our dumbass fans think snyder is mother teresa.  from what i can tell, he is a terrible human being.

[bubbles4ksu]

Darkening a doorstep refers to a person's shadow, not to their skin.

My dad is very offended by hot-doggism. He even threw hotdogs at opposing players when he was at Fort Hays in the 70s. Even though he uses the term broadly today, I'd bet that black athletes received a majority of the well processed meats.

[Dr Rick Daris]

there were less than 4k at the game today.

[MakeItRain]

Darkening a doorstep refers to a person's shadow, not to their skin.

My dad is very offended by hot-doggism. He even threw hotdogs at opposing players when he was at Fort Hays in the 70s. Even though he uses the term broadly today, I'd bet that black athletes received a majority of the well processed meats.

That was the least coded line in that post.

[WillieWatanabe]

did anyone set this loser straight?

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths.   There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.

Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life.   Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been  about.

I    at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.

Hartman hated, HATED the Wildkittens basketball team for interfering with his free use of Ahearn.  Tried to make their lives miserable.  Made it very odd that decades later he ended up being the interim coach for the women's team for part of a season.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

I wasn't happy that Frank Martin left, though I don't think he was as great as some folks make him out to be.  I also don't hate the oscar Weber hire.

Not sure where to call home.

[CNS]

I wasn't happy that Frank Martin left, though I don't think he was as great as some folks make him out to be.  I also don't hate the oscar Weber hire.

Not sure where to call home.

The football board from the sounds of it.  woof.

[michigancat]

Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be

He was a good coach.  Worse than Huggins, no better or worse than Kruger.  <-- I feel like people make him out to be more than this.