'10-'11 Starters

[Do Work Son]

 

 

[PowercatPat]

I'd love to see McGruder start but I don't think he will over Irving. Frank is all about defense and when it comes to defense, Irving>>>>McGruder.

[doom]

I'd love to see McGruder start but I don't think he will over Irving. Frank is all about defense and when it comes to defense, Irving>>>>McGruder.

I was all for Irving at the point for the same reason.  But the more I ponder it that would kill our running offense.  We need Pullen running things with Irving behind him.  McGruder plays the 2 and will likely start.  If we somehow got Dpete that could change. 

[Barry McCockner]

I think McGruder will get the start over Irving, mainly because Jake will be going back to the point.  Frank will want more experience at the point, plus Jake needs to have a solid year at the point for his draft stock.  His best (only) hope of playing ing the NBA is at the point.

We're so loaded in the frontcourt, it's unreal.  -Colon, +Asprilla, +1 yr experience for everyone else.  I might be the only one, but I still see JHR being a huge factor off the bench next year.  His upside is huge.  3-2 Zone with JHR and Kelly on the back and Sutton at the top is tough.  Would have liked to see us try that against Butler.  Seemed like they scored 2/3 of their points getting open layups off of screens.  Anyone else, or is that just LBBIQ?

The 3 will be interesting.  Not sure who will be behind Sutton.  Probably go small with McGruds there some I suppose, if he could handle the matchup.  Not sure if there is any hope that Jamar can put in minutes at the 3 against a bigger matchup or not.  He fouls enough as it is.  Would be REALLY great if Southwell could be good enough on D to step in here and give minutes, otherwise I'm seeing this as a potential problem, particularly with the way Sutton gets into foul trouble.

[Do Work Son]

Too tough to call. I bet Irving plays the 1  , however would like to see Rodney start

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2?  I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him.  (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)

[Do Work Son]

Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2?  I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him.  (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)

JFC, yes mcruder can handle the ball. He's a fracking baller!

[canadian_breeze]

Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2?  I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him.  (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)

ya I feel like I never really saw him cross anyone up or slash a lot to the basket

[BigCat]

I think you all are reading too much into the 'upside' of the players we have left. Upside generally never materializes. Having potential just means you aren't worth a damn. Next year, 8-8 will be great. Hell, we may only win 4-5 conference games next year.

[Barry McCockner]

I think you all are reading too much into the 'upside' of the players we have left. Upside generally never materializes. Having potential just means you aren't worth a damn. Next year, 8-8 will be great. Hell, we may only win 4-5 conference games next year.

Yeah, you're probably right.  Rarely do players show much improvement between their freshman and sophomore years.  I'm sure those 5 freshmen, particularly the 4 that got Big 12 level experience will be any better next year.   

[Panjandrum]

At this point, I'd personally prefer to continue to watch Jake play off of the ball.  It's obviously worked out well thus far.

At the point, I think you really hope for Russell to come around.  He's got the size and shooting ability to be an offensive threat, but defensively, he's got a long way to go.  If KSU can't secure a really nice JUCO PG, I think you'll see Russell and Irving fight it out.

Now, there are two scenarios.  One, if Irving wins the job, you have to play McGruder at the three.  There is no way that you can have two players on the floor at the same time who aren't true scoring threats (Irving & Sutton).  You'll have to play McGruder at the three to open up the offense on the perimeter, or the other team is just going to choke the ability to feed the ball inside.

The second scenario is if Russell starts.  If he comes around, I'd see Sutton still starting, but I still think you need McGruder out there.  He has the ability to score from the wing, on the perimeter and inside, which would hopefully prevent teams, like Butler and Kansas, from trying to double our guards.

The bottom line is that McGruder needs to start, ultimately, and if he does, you can probably swap Russell and Irving interchangeably depending on the defensive matchups or the need for perimeter scoring.  Truthfully, it's kind of a moot point because the bulk of our talent will reside in the frontcourt, so what we need on the perimeter is solid defense, which Irving and Pullen provide, and you can let the front court take the bulk of the scoring between Asprilla, Kelly, Samuels, and Judge.

[steve dave]

I only want McG playing the three anyway

[CNS]

1. Irving has to play the 1 when playing.  Why? because SG's have to be able to S, that is why it is part of the abbreviation.  Irving hasn't shown that in our games to date.  I have heard that he used to be good at the three when in high school.  Hopefully he finds that ability again.

2. I would agree with PW's line up, because Frank mentioned wanting to move Jamar to the 3 before this season.  However, I think we would have saw a lot more of that this year if it was a possibility.  Didn't happen, so I don't foresee it next year.  Jamar has a long way to go to be a solid 3.

3. I don't see us being better next year unless we bring in a serious PG.  Otherwise, our lack of control and ability to push the game from our PG position will seriously strangle this team.  We have no one that currently has the skill set.  Look for a big recruit to come in, or look for some very different bb next year.

4. Rodney and Jake will be bringing the ball up unless the recruit mentioned in #3 comes forth.  Irving will help at times, but needs to provide more O than he does now.  It is ok to have a D stopper like Dom that doesn't score often in our system, however our system needs a PG that can score.

5. I still don't see Russell playing a sig role in our team.  He may end up being the Lu of the back court.

[weird roberts foam finger]

I only want McG playing the three anyway

He really, really, really, REALLY needs to pull his head out on defense.  If he can become adequate (not good, just adequate) he'll get minutes and could really help offset the loss of Clemente's offense (not saying they're similar scorers, just that they're both scorers).  If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot.  And we can't shoot unless Rodney is out there, imho.  Unfortunately, Rodney won't be out there unless he pulls his head out on defense.  Ergo, this is the key to the season.

[kstatefreak42]

If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.

You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!

Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3

[CNS]

If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.

You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!

Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3

What are you a fan of?  His non-emotionally telling bench expressions?  His ability to keep his warm up on for long periods of time?  His inability to fight through a pick?

[kstatefreak42]

Question: Can McGruder handle the ball well enough to play the 2?  I didn't really see that aspect in his game when I watched him.  (Not trying to criticize the guy, but an actual question.)

ya I feel like I never really saw him cross anyone up or slash a lot to the basket

agreed. Just seemed like a spot up shooter, and the clean up man on missed shots. I would love to see him go more 1 on 1. STREET BALL RODNEY FREAKIN STREET BALL!!!!

[kstatefreak42]

If Russell comes along this off-season than we will be deadly. He really is the missing piece for next season. I want McGruder starting next year @ SG by the way. Pullen @ PG.

You hear me Nick?!?! Work hard!!!

Im a Nick Russell fan as well. I just love the thought of a 6'4 PG with handle's. <3 <3 <3

What are you a fan of?  His non-emotionally telling bench expressions?  His ability to keep his warm up on for long periods of time?  His inability to fight through a pick?

Nailed it.

[CNS]

I only want McG playing the three anyway

 If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot.  

This is my main concern.  GD, we need a fracking PG that can move.  I am not a huge fan of slowly bringing the ball up and running the wheel.

[kso_FAN]

I only want McG playing the three anyway

He really, really, really, REALLY needs to pull his head out on defense.  If he can become adequate (not good, just adequate) he'll get minutes and could really help offset the loss of Clemente's offense (not saying they're similar scorers, just that they're both scorers).  If we can't run (and we won't be able to sans Denis), we have to be able to shoot.  And we can't shoot unless Rodney is out there, imho.  Unfortunately, Rodney won't be out there unless he pulls his head out on defense.  Ergo, this is the key to the season.

McGruder will be fine.  IMHO, McGruder is Frank's next Pullen.  Frank rode him hard this year like he did Pullen as a FR while he was very up and down and struggled defensively.  However, if/when McGruder "gets it" he's going to turn into a very key piece for the future at K-State along with Judge.  I'm going to trust the method to Frank's madness here b/c his past has shown he's going to work a couple of his younger players so they can be leaders by the time they are upperclassmen.  

As for line-ups, McGruder will have to prove me wrong as far as playing at SG.

I'd say next year Frank will be looking for some combination at his combo guard spots.  Of course Pullen is going to be the feature, probably getting around 15 MPG at PG and 20 or so at SG.  The key will be who steps up to get those minutes opposite of him; I'd guess Irving and Russell will battle for those minutes.  McGruder will probably get some at SG, but I'm guessing it won't be more than 10 MPG.  Then Spradling and Southwell can fight for the scraps.

At SF its pretty much a battle between Sutton and McGruder.  We can debate merits, but hopefully Sutton makes some solid offensive/mental/confidence improvements while McGruder figures out what is expected on defense while learning the system more completely on offense.  I'd guess we'll see Sutton at least 25 MPG here with McGruder picking up the rest along with some minutes at SG.

In the frontcourt we'll again have lots of options.  I would imagine it may shake up to Kelly and Samuels starting, depending on match-ups and what Asprilla brings.  Judge takes on JamSam's role this year as the spark of the bench.  JHR fills in where needed and in games where he's a good match-up.  Right now I'd guess 25 MPG for Kelly, 20 for both Samuels and Judge, with Asprilla and JHR splitting the rest.  Asprilla could end up playing a larger role, but we'll have to see.  Its harder to say how this spot will shake out with 5 guys battling for minutes, but I am hopeful Kelly, Judge, and Jamar make it hard for Frank to keep them off the floor.

We'll have to find ways to create pace without Clemente, but its not like Pullen, Irving, or even Russell are incapable of pushing the ball, the just weren't asked to do so this year.  Again, it won't look like the speed of Clemente and we'll have to use more kick ahead passes to guys like McGruder, Sutton, or even Samuels leaking to play fast, but it can be done.

[catzacker]

It all really depends on how Frank wants to use Pullen and how whomever is playing opposite of Pullen develops.  I'm not a believer in Irving, at all, and Russell seems entirely too slow.  McGruds lacks the handles to be a combo-guard.  So I'll be curious to see how Frank handles it.  So, I have no idea who the "1" will be, I just hope he's good enough that Jake can play a majority of his time at the "2".  I'm terrified of a Texas situation at the point.  Sutton and McGruds at the 3.  Jamar at the 4 (if he gets it together and develops an outside shot, we will be a match up problem for a lot of teams), Kelly at the 5.  Wally and Spri off the bench. 

[weird roberts foam finger]

We'll have to find ways to create pace without Clemente, but its not like Pullen, Irving, or even Russell are incapable of pushing the ball, the just weren't asked to do so this year.  Again, it won't look like the speed of Clemente and we'll have to use more kick ahead passes to guys like McGruder, Sutton, or even Samuels leaking to play fast, but it can be done.

I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help.  We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well.  But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court?  Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up.  This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that.  I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.

I'm terrified of a Texas situation at the point. 

Don't be.  The mere presence of Pullen will insure we don't ever get to that point.

[kso_FAN]

I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help.  We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well.  But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court?  Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up.  This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that.  I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.

Good point.  Only thing I'd say is given his skill set, McGruder is more likely to take another 3 off the dribble than a 2.  That's the other thing you've got to consider, if McGruder is playing the 2, he's more than likely to be guarded by another 2.  Granted, that gives a match-up advantage on the boards and perhaps getting his shot off, but less likely that he can take a guy with more lateral quickness off the dribble.

[weird roberts foam finger]

I am very confident we will continue to get points off our defense, so that will obviously help.  We've got guys that can get quick set shots/pull-up 3s as well.  But here's the thing -- who's going to penetrate in the half court?  Jake is mediocre at it and no one else on the perimeter has shown an ability to pick that slack up.  This is why I am kind of hung up on Rodney at this point -- I'm thinking we'll need better shooting to compensate for the loss of Clemente, and I think Rodney can bring that.  I am hoping he can get himself onto the floor as much as possible next year.

Good point.  Only thing I'd say is given his skill set, McGruder is more likely to take another 3 off the dribble than a 2.  That's the other thing you've got to consider, if McGruder is playing the 2, he's more than likely to be guarded by another 2.  Granted, that gives a match-up advantage on the boards and perhaps getting his shot off, but less likely that he can take a guy with more lateral quickness off the dribble.

I'm pretty much down with your minutes breakdown guesstimate for just that reason -- I'm fine with McGruder getting most of his minutes at the 3.  I just want him scoring when he's in there.

Is this where the powerespect idea that McGruder will "replace" Clemente comes from?  The desire to plug him onto the floor wherever possible (and with Clemente leaving, the biggest hole is at pg) is a very strong impulse, and I understand it.  It's flat-out wrong to insinuate he should play point (unless we're in a jam with fouls/injuries), but I get why folks want to shoe-horn him onto the court and pencil him in for 15 points a game.  His offensive game is tantalizing.

[kougar24]

I don't know why people are scared of Irving running the point. If he follows the normal progression from true frosh to soph, he could be pretty good.