Unsettled Waters

[Rage Against the McKee]

Waters would have had a very nice day if he wouldn't have lead the offense to  3 and out drives about 3 times in a row.

[star seed 7]

Waters bores me.  Also he's not a quality human being.

[Rage Against the McKee]

What does Sams need to do?

Show some more ability to throw down the field. Show more explosiveness as a runner. Do whatever he needs to do for Snyder to trust him more. Sams got his shot vs OSU and Baylor, seems like it's Waters' job to lose again now that Lockett and Thompson are back.

It really wasn't a true shot when he didn't have Lockett or Thompson though. I'm starting to think that either Daniel isn't getting the playbook or the coaches don't have the confidence that he gets it. I can't figure out any other reason why the play calling is so limited when he is in the game.

Plus OSU and Baylor are easily the two best teams in the conference and Sams looked better in those games than Waters has all year.

[catzacker]

FWIW, I think there is something to zacker's premise of Sams not being as explosive. He still does some nice things, but he seems to be breaking fewer big runs. Granted, part of it is how they are defended, but Waters has more big runs the last two games than Sams.

If you compare him to last year, I mean, just go look at the Miami film, he is beyond explosive - this year, seems to not be as much.  he looks like his knee(s) are bothering him.

[steve dave]

he was running through gigantic gaping holes against Miami with no second level defenders in site. it's not really apples to apples.

[catzacker]

he was running through gigantic gaping holes against Miami with no second level defenders in site. it's not really apples to apples.

he made the Miami defenders look like they were standing still.  he literally just ran right by them.  I haven't seen him do that this year.  I think whatever tweak he had to this knee or whatever before the season started is still bothering him.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Sams is 4th in the league in rushing you mongoloid.  He has accomplished that playing part time and running the same two plays.  Nobody gives a eff which adjective you prefer to use to describe it.  I like "electric".

[Cire]

Sams is running against loaded boxes and is getting hit at the line or in the back field all the time.   He rarely gets to the second level cleanly.

[catzacker]

Sams is 4th in the league in rushing you mongoloid.  He has accomplished that playing part time and running the same two plays.  Nobody gives a eff which adjective you prefer to use to describe it.  I like "electric".

Just think how much he'd rush for if he was fast.

[MakeItRain]

Waters would have had a very nice day if he wouldn't have lead the offense to  3 and out drives about 3 times in a row.

Did you watch on TV? Waters threw the ball poorly, all day, even the completions. TV can be deceiving when it comes to such things.

[Belvis Noland]

Waters would have had a very nice day if he wouldn't have lead the offense to  3 and out drives about 3 times in a row.

Did you watch on TV? Waters threw the ball poorly, all day, even the completions. TV can be deceiving when it comes to such things.

Yeah, Waters is not good.  The opening quarter is a perfect illustration of Waters' career thus far.  nice drive followed up with a healthy does of horse crap. 

So, a few observos.  Would like to know if anybody sees the same thing.  Or, if anybody has any stats to confirm what I feel like I'm seeing. 

--Waters has many more 3-n-outs than Sams (as a % of series played). 
--Waters' 1st down production is abysmal, compared to Sams. 
--Waters 3rd down efficiency is worse than Sams.
--Waters has us in longer 3rd down situations than Sams. 

[pissclams]

waters is an elite 2nd down qb

[EMAWmeister]

Waters was talking up his running ability at Rusty's last night. He said "dude, I can run" and @Purplebear4 said "really? Because no you cant"

[cas4ksu]

Lockett is probably the best receiver we've ever had

he's the best Lockett we've ever had, imo. and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

ok.  so he's the best receiver we've ever had.

hard to put him over jordy.

[Trim]

Waters was talking up his running ability at Rusty's last night. He said "dude, I can run" and @Purplebear4 said "really? Because no you cant"

[wetwillie]

Lockett is probably the best receiver we've ever had

he's the best Lockett we've ever had, imo. and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

ok.  so he's the best receiver we've ever had.

hard to put him over jordy.

Who was throwing to jordy?

[joda]

Lockett is probably the best receiver we've ever had

he's the best Lockett we've ever had, imo. and that's nothing to be ashamed of.

ok.  so he's the best receiver we've ever had.

hard to put him over jordy.

Andre Coleman was pretty studly in his playing days too. Don't know if I'd put him above TLBL but, yea, the point stands that as the best Lockett he's easily top 5 all time

[DOD Take 2]

Waters would have had a very nice day if he wouldn't have lead the offense to  3 and out drives about 3 times in a row.

Did you watch on TV? Waters threw the ball poorly, all day, even the completions. TV can be deceiving when it comes to such things.

Can't believe this was just now mentioned. Waters didn't look good. Thompson, Miller, and Lockett all made really nice catches to bail him out. The pass to Lockett in the 4th was not a very good throw. It was basically a jump ball. His 3 and 2 completion to Lockett was lucky as well, as the corner was blanketing Lockett. Lockett fought him off well and ma the catch.

While Sams did get very lucky on his first pass to Thompson, I felt like he was very adequate in the passing game. He had a really nice pass to Lockett on a third down. He also moved in the pocket and didn't take a sack, where Waters seems determined to not give up on plays and took 2 sacks against heavy pressure. Waters and Sams both completed passes to Thompson on the same play call and the passes looked identical. I only see one half where Waters outplayed Sams, just looks like SAMs can do everything Waters did today.

[eastcat]

Judging from these comments I'm guessing somewhere around 0.5% of this board has played football before, at any level.

[kso_FAN]

By no means do I imply that Waters is great or should be the starter, but he is much better than he is made out to be on this board. He made bad throws and was bailed out several times, but he made some decent throws too. Both quarterbacks played decent games and neither separated from the other. Both will continue to play.

Just as Waters had a chance to take a lead in the race yesterday, Sams had a chance against both OSU and Baylor. Both are just average QBs right now that make good and bad plays. Neither has given Snyder a reason to declare one or other the starter.

[joda]

By no means do I imply that Waters is great or should be the starter, but he is much better than he is made out to be on this board. He made bad throws and was bailed out several times, but he made some decent throws too. Both quarterbacks played decent games and neither separated from the other. Both will continue to play.

Just as Waters had a chance to take a lead in the race yesterday, Sams had a chance against both OSU and Baylor. Both are just average QBs right now that make good and bad plays. Neither has given Snyder a reason to declare one or other the starter.

I completely agree with this, and I don't really mind both playing as long as they're used right. My only problem is that it seems like its pretty obvious that when Waters makes a poor throw he carries it over and he enters a mini slump. At those points he's pretty much worthless for the next 4-5 drives. The coaches seem to be waiting about 2-3 drives longer than they should to make the switch.

[michigancat]

I thought Sams took a clear lead in the race against OSU and Baylor.

[Belvis Noland]

Sams had a chance against both OSU and Baylor.

yes he did.  and did exceedingly well.  which is more than can be said about Waters in any game this year. 

a loss is a loss.  But, can you imagine what the OSU and BU games would have looked like had Bill given the keys to Jake and told him to be home by 10?  I mean, it would've been brutal.     

While neither QB is the answer, Sams fits what this program has been built to do and will continue to do with Aaron Sharp.  run, run, run some more. 

[kougar24]

FWIW, I think there is something to zacker's premise of Sams not being as explosive. He still does some nice things, but he seems to be breaking fewer big runs. Granted, part of it is how they are defended, but Waters has more big runs the last two games than Sams.

That has absolutely nothing to do with Sams' explosiveness and everything to do with Snyder's moronic handling of the QB position and playcalling this year.

[Trim]

Neither has given Snyder a reason to declare one or other the starter.

Sams has by, if nothing else, being birf'd later and having more potential.