Author Topic: This staff is f'ing awful  (Read 16947 times)

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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2013, 12:42:56 PM »
Snyder is going to insist that both have "earned the right to play" and he's going to play both.

All analysts and football IQ types seem to agree that we'd better off if he arbitrarily picked ONE of them and just stuck with him.

What explanation exists as to why Bill won't do that?  Can it be that he made promises to each of them that refuses to break?  I mean, many of us have dreamed/hoped/prayed for Bill to make crazy ass recruiting promises to land quarterbacks....did Bill finally actually do that, and this is the implication of Bill doing that....that, being Bill, he actually tries to keep his word????   It's kinda nuts, isn't it?

I think it's similar to 2001. He sees things in both that he likes and he stubbornly thinks he can make playing both work. I don't think he made any promises, is more a weird combination of bill's ego and loyalty/liking each quarterback.

Offline Pete

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #76 on: October 27, 2013, 12:48:04 PM »
BUT, if Bill were to make promises, he'd handle it exactly like this, I bet. 

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #77 on: October 27, 2013, 12:54:10 PM »
BUT, if Bill were to make promises, he'd handle it exactly like this, I bet.

IMHO this just shows Bill is human. He has guys he likes and plays them. See Walker and Roberts too.

Offline Pete

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #78 on: October 27, 2013, 12:55:16 PM »
BUT, if Bill were to make promises, he'd handle it exactly like this, I bet.

IMHO this just shows Bill is human. He had guys he likes and plays them. See Walker and Roberts too.

Can we expect anything to change next season????

Offline CNS

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #79 on: October 27, 2013, 02:21:48 PM »
I can't do this two yrs.  This has been a frustrating season.   Do not want it again.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #80 on: October 27, 2013, 02:22:22 PM »
Snyder is going to insist that both have "earned the right to play" and he's going to play both.

All analysts and football IQ types seem to agree that we'd better off if he arbitrarily picked ONE of them and just stuck with him.

What explanation exists as to why Bill won't do that?  Can it be that he made promises to each of them that refuses to break?  I mean, many of us have dreamed/hoped/prayed for Bill to make crazy ass recruiting promises to land quarterbacks....did Bill finally actually do that, and this is the implication of Bill doing that....that, being Bill, he actually tries to keep his word????   It's kinda nuts, isn't it?

I've given up on him just picking one although that seems like the easiest solution. I would like him to use both of them better and I don't think that's too much to ask. Why does he only let Jake throw the ball on third and long? Why when Jake and Daniel run the ball is it the same 3 plays over and over? I'm not asking for two different packages I'm asking for a variety of plays with what we already have. How many times are we going to throw that running and dump to the TE pass? What happened to screens and the aforementioned bootleg, both would work great against these aggressive 8 and 9 man fronts.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #81 on: October 27, 2013, 02:31:21 PM »
I can't do this two yrs.  This has been a frustrating season.   Do not want it again.

Yes, something has to change, whether it's players or coaches.  That win was less enjoyable because of how both players are mismanaged.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #82 on: October 27, 2013, 02:38:35 PM »
The offensive staff is unspeakably horrific. I made the decision in the first half that I was done getting angry at Jake. The coaches do such a poor job putting the QBs and the entire offense in a position where they can be successful.  I watched as we were struggling to do anything with the ball as WVU ran a creative offense for their garbage qb. How great would Daniel Sams be on that bootleg they kept running for Trickett? Waters shouldn't have fumbled because he shouldn't have been in that position. We have no creativity with play calling at all, and I'm not referring to trick plays I'd be happier if we went beyond page 3 of the playbook.

Both of quarterbacks are much better than they played and it is 95% the fault of the coaches. The offense played well the last 20 minutes despite the play callers.

This all is a product of having a 2 QB system.

There isn't enough time to truly implement completely different packages for each quarterback, there are only subtle tweaks to the package to fit each QBs strength. Frankly, it would be tough for the other 10 guys to have to deal with two different packages as well because it would be too much to learn. So there is one game plan and because you have two guys who have different skill sets you have to limit it with a few wrinkles for each quarterback.

For example, its clear they don't completely trust Sams on zone read plays and the majority of zone reads (since the Texas game) come when Waters is on the field. They have opened up speed option lately to Sams, but its clear the major running game they trust Sams with is power/lead and that's what he's going to run the majority of the time.

In the passing game, Sams is being used in the short to intermediate range, but very few deeper passes. He's just shown an inability to make those reads correctly. But Waters is getting better at those throws and if anything he's shown the short passing game (see the number of high throws he has) is what he struggles with most.

Then a feature play this year, especially yesterday and against OSU, is the quarterback read/seam pass option play. Most of Sextons middle routes were option passes of quarterback lead and several times those turned into runs. I like that we've found a way to run this seam/option to someone other than the TE or Gronk, but its still limited.

Truly the only way the playbook can be expanded is to pick one quarterback and completely build the offense around him, but I don't think that's going to happen. Snyder is going to insist that both have "earned the right to play" and he's going to play both. Hopefully they can find a way to make it (eventually) work like they did yesterday, but with 2 QBs there are going to be stretches where the offense can't get any rhythm. However, I've resigned myself that this is going to be the way it is this year, I'm just going to vent about it on twitter once and a while and move on I guess.

All due respect your points here are negated by what Texas did with Chance Mock and VY for two years.  I will listen to the argument that:

1) we don't have the depth of talent to turn over 7-8 new players for a second system like UT did for Young's package
2) our offensive coaches are not imaginative, flexible, or smart enough to do something like that
3) our backs and receivers are not talented enough or not smart enough to do something like that

But go back and look at what UT did.  They had an almost entirely new O-line come in to the game, most times they used a different RB to pair with VY.  And they subbed series to series.  It is the closest comparison we've seen in terms of potential.  I'm not saying we are Texas or Sams=VY.  I am saying that for a number of reasons we can all agree that neither QB is seeing their full potential realized.  I am just nudging us to look a little more closely at a blueprint that was successful in the recent past.

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #83 on: October 27, 2013, 02:42:27 PM »
The offensive staff is unspeakably horrific. I made the decision in the first half that I was done getting angry at Jake. The coaches do such a poor job putting the QBs and the entire offense in a position where they can be successful.  I watched as we were struggling to do anything with the ball as WVU ran a creative offense for their garbage qb. How great would Daniel Sams be on that bootleg they kept running for Trickett? Waters shouldn't have fumbled because he shouldn't have been in that position. We have no creativity with play calling at all, and I'm not referring to trick plays I'd be happier if we went beyond page 3 of the playbook.

Both of quarterbacks are much better than they played and it is 95% the fault of the coaches. The offense played well the last 20 minutes despite the play callers.

Going into the game I was pissed, entirely, at the coaches.  But after/during this game, I realize that both of them are just not what they should or not what I thought they would be.  Coaches suck at putting sucky players into position and the players suck when they get put into positions.  I mean, yeah, don't run Waters or whatever, but JFC how long has he played QB and been hit?  He can't rough ridin' hold onto the ball?  He can't rough ridin' take a goddamn snap?  QB's don't take snaps?  Same with Sams.  It's one rough ridin' thing after the other and I can't blame the coaches (entirely) because it doesn't matter what play gets called, those two dumbfucks find a way to eff it up.  It's unwatchable.  I blame the last 20 minutes on WVU sucking crap.  In short - they all rough ridin' suck at their jobs.

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #84 on: October 27, 2013, 03:27:12 PM »
The offensive staff is unspeakably horrific. I made the decision in the first half that I was done getting angry at Jake. The coaches do such a poor job putting the QBs and the entire offense in a position where they can be successful.  I watched as we were struggling to do anything with the ball as WVU ran a creative offense for their garbage qb. How great would Daniel Sams be on that bootleg they kept running for Trickett? Waters shouldn't have fumbled because he shouldn't have been in that position. We have no creativity with play calling at all, and I'm not referring to trick plays I'd be happier if we went beyond page 3 of the playbook.

Both of quarterbacks are much better than they played and it is 95% the fault of the coaches. The offense played well the last 20 minutes despite the play callers.

This all is a product of having a 2 QB system.

There isn't enough time to truly implement completely different packages for each quarterback, there are only subtle tweaks to the package to fit each QBs strength. Frankly, it would be tough for the other 10 guys to have to deal with two different packages as well because it would be too much to learn. So there is one game plan and because you have two guys who have different skill sets you have to limit it with a few wrinkles for each quarterback.

For example, its clear they don't completely trust Sams on zone read plays and the majority of zone reads (since the Texas game) come when Waters is on the field. They have opened up speed option lately to Sams, but its clear the major running game they trust Sams with is power/lead and that's what he's going to run the majority of the time.

In the passing game, Sams is being used in the short to intermediate range, but very few deeper passes. He's just shown an inability to make those reads correctly. But Waters is getting better at those throws and if anything he's shown the short passing game (see the number of high throws he has) is what he struggles with most.

Then a feature play this year, especially yesterday and against OSU, is the quarterback read/seam pass option play. Most of Sextons middle routes were option passes of quarterback lead and several times those turned into runs. I like that we've found a way to run this seam/option to someone other than the TE or Gronk, but its still limited.

Truly the only way the playbook can be expanded is to pick one quarterback and completely build the offense around him, but I don't think that's going to happen. Snyder is going to insist that both have "earned the right to play" and he's going to play both. Hopefully they can find a way to make it (eventually) work like they did yesterday, but with 2 QBs there are going to be stretches where the offense can't get any rhythm. However, I've resigned myself that this is going to be the way it is this year, I'm just going to vent about it on twitter once and a while and move on I guess.

All due respect your points here are negated by what Texas did with Chance Mock and VY for two years.  I will listen to the argument that:

1) we don't have the depth of talent to turn over 7-8 new players for a second system like UT did for Young's package
2) our offensive coaches are not imaginative, flexible, or smart enough to do something like that
3) our backs and receivers are not talented enough or not smart enough to do something like that

But go back and look at what UT did.  They had an almost entirely new O-line come in to the game, most times they used a different RB to pair with VY.  And they subbed series to series.  It is the closest comparison we've seen in terms of potential.  I'm not saying we are Texas or Sams=VY.  I am saying that for a number of reasons we can all agree that neither QB is seeing their full potential realized.  I am just nudging us to look a little more closely at a blueprint that was successful in the recent past.

I think that example is a talent issue more than anything.

And Vince Young is a just whole different category. When Young was in the game Texas ran about 2 formations and 5 plays, even in the national title game.

Offline kim carnes

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2013, 03:34:13 PM »
VY was the best CFB player who ever lived

Offline star seed 7

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2013, 03:43:15 PM »
VY was the best CFB player who ever lived

 :thumbs:
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Offline mocat

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2013, 04:12:55 PM »
Why did he suck in the nfl? Favre and Garcia are getting calls from teams and both those guys wear depends

Offline ChiComCat

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2013, 04:35:16 PM »
Why did he suck in the nfl? Favre and Garcia are getting calls from teams and both those guys wear depends

Favre is getting calls, Garcia is calling.  VY was a slightly better Tebow with an elite running back in the NFL.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2013, 06:06:58 PM »
VY was the best CFB player who ever lived

:nono:

I'll take Cameron Jarrell Newton

Offline lopakman

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #90 on: October 27, 2013, 06:19:19 PM »
VY was the best CFB player who ever lived

:nono:

I'll take Cameron Jarrell Newton

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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #91 on: October 27, 2013, 06:21:27 PM »
 :confused:

Offline kso_FAN

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #92 on: October 27, 2013, 06:23:15 PM »
I'd put Newton and VY in the same ballpark. Very few single players can elevate a team to greatness like those two did. Bishop almost did for us.

Offline lopakman

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #93 on: October 27, 2013, 06:26:39 PM »
I could listen to the argument that Cam Newton had one of the best seasons in cfb history but I can't award greatest CFB of all time to someone who only played one season.  I don't even think he's the best football player to come out of Auburn.
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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #94 on: October 27, 2013, 06:27:58 PM »
i didn't watch cam play, but VY was magic to watch.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #95 on: October 27, 2013, 06:50:12 PM »
I could listen to the argument that Cam Newton had one of the best seasons in cfb history but I can't award greatest CFB of all time to someone who only played one season.  I don't even think he's the best football player to come out of Auburn.

As long as you can see the flaw in saying that player with the greatest season can't be the greatest player because he left to be the #1 pick.

Also its worth noting that before JFF last year, Cam had the greatest statistical season in the history of college football.  I couldn't imagine the numbers Cam would have racked up if he played that A&M offense.

Offline lopakman

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #96 on: October 27, 2013, 07:26:28 PM »
I could listen to the argument that Cam Newton had one of the best seasons in cfb history but I can't award greatest CFB of all time to someone who only played one season.  I don't even think he's the best football player to come out of Auburn.

As long as you can see the flaw in saying that player with the greatest season can't be the greatest player because he left to be the #1 pick.

Also its worth noting that before JFF last year, Cam had the greatest statistical season in the history of college football.  I couldn't imagine the numbers Cam would have racked up if he played that A&M offense.



I prefer to focus on what a player did do, as opposed to speculate on what they might have done.  There are players as talented as Cam Newton who did more for their school than Cam did for Auburn.  And to be clear I certainly don't fault him for leaving early.  Perhaps if he had stayed he would have ended up being the undisputed best college football player ever, or maybe he would've got hurt. 

Also Cam had the greatest statistical season for a quarterback.  Hard to compare Cam's statistics to say Deion Sanders 14 int's in 1998.
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Offline Katpappy

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #97 on: October 27, 2013, 08:15:57 PM »
The offensive staff is unspeakably horrific. I made the decision in the first half that I was done getting angry at Jake. The coaches do such a poor job putting the QBs and the entire offense in a position where they can be successful.  I watched as we were struggling to do anything with the ball as WVU ran a creative offense for their garbage qb. How great would Daniel Sams be on that bootleg they kept running for Trickett? Waters shouldn't have fumbled because he shouldn't have been in that position. We have no creativity with play calling at all, and I'm not referring to trick plays I'd be happier if we went beyond page 3 of the playbook.

Both of quarterbacks are much better than they played and it is 95% the fault of the coaches. The offense played well the last 20 minutes despite the play callers.
He's only got three pages; anyone who's watched Snyder's teams knows his got a set number of plays that he runs 90% of the time.
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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #98 on: October 27, 2013, 08:40:46 PM »
I could listen to the argument that Cam Newton had one of the best seasons in cfb history but I can't award greatest CFB of all time to someone who only played one season.  I don't even think he's the best football player to come out of Auburn.

As long as you can see the flaw in saying that player with the greatest season can't be the greatest player because he left to be the #1 pick.

Also its worth noting that before JFF last year, Cam had the greatest statistical season in the history of college football.  I couldn't imagine the numbers Cam would have racked up if he played that A&M offense.



I prefer to focus on what a player did do, as opposed to speculate on what they might have done.  There are players as talented as Cam Newton who did more for their school than Cam did for Auburn.  And to be clear I certainly don't fault him for leaving early.  Perhaps if he had stayed he would have ended up being the undisputed best college football player ever, or maybe he would've got hurt. 

Also Cam had the greatest statistical season for a quarterback.  Hard to compare Cam's statistics to say Deion Sanders 14 int's in 1998.

barry's junior year was the greatest college season of all time.
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Offline MakeItRain

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Re: This staff is f'ing awful
« Reply #99 on: October 27, 2013, 09:16:14 PM »
I could listen to the argument that Cam Newton had one of the best seasons in cfb history but I can't award greatest CFB of all time to someone who only played one season.  I don't even think he's the best football player to come out of Auburn.

As long as you can see the flaw in saying that player with the greatest season can't be the greatest player because he left to be the #1 pick.

Also its worth noting that before JFF last year, Cam had the greatest statistical season in the history of college football.  I couldn't imagine the numbers Cam would have racked up if he played that A&M offense.



I prefer to focus on what a player did do, as opposed to speculate on what they might have done.  There are players as talented as Cam Newton who did more for their school than Cam did for Auburn.  And to be clear I certainly don't fault him for leaving early.  Perhaps if he had stayed he would have ended up being the undisputed best college football player ever, or maybe he would've got hurt. 

Also Cam had the greatest statistical season for a quarterback.  Hard to compare Cam's statistics to say Deion Sanders 14 int's in 1998.

What did I speculate? Also of course I meant for a quarterback, thought that would go without saying. You've had two posts critical of my choice without offering one of your own.