Author Topic: The lack of a true stud running back is probably hurting this team more . . .  (Read 9174 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Hubes also doesn't turn over the ball very much

Also very important. And he blocks well, especially for his size. I think the fact that he knows and can run the entire offense and that he doesn't fumble are big reasons why he won the job and nobody has even come close to beating him out. I don't doubt that there are guys with "more talent", but that doesn't mean they are better players in this system. And Snyder isn't going to change his system.

Offline Steffy08

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1292
    • View Profile
Hubes also doesn't turn over the ball very much

This

catzacker

  • Guest
Hubert is better and or more productive than most RBs that Snyder, or Prince, has had the last 20 years. The list of those clearly better/more productive is short

Darren Sproles
Daniel Thomas
James Johnson

I'd listen to an argument for Frank Murphy but he didn't produce numbers. Snyder has had good running QBs that overshadowed or more accurately negated the need for a feature back. This is why I think the 2003 team was unquestionably the best we've had.

Josh Scobey

MIR, when you include Scobey in your original post, you’re really not giving Hubert a compliment.  And quite honestly, that’s probably accurate. He’s a slightly above average running back.  He’s Hickson, but got to play against defenses that weren’t designed to stop the run.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
I guess if you're just trying to hang on for dear life to win a game and sputter, fiddle fart around, get your QB hit 27 to 30 times a game with no real ability to change a game or rip off long runs.  Than Hubes is the guy, he knows the playbook, gets his assignment most of the time, and doesn't fumble much.    :thumbsup:

Getting the assignments right (most of the time) is particulary important when your two best receivers are out of the game, and the defense is keying on your QB running game.   That's really when you don't want a workhouse at the TB position. 

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
I guess if you're just trying to hang on for dear life to win a game and sputter, fiddle fart around, get your QB hit 27 to 30 times a game with no real ability to change a game or rip off long runs.  Than Hubes is the guy, he knows the playbook, gets his assignment most of the time, and doesn't fumble much.    :thumbsup:

Getting the assignments right (most of the time) is particulary important when your two best receivers are out of the game, and the defense is keying on your QB running game.   That's really when you don't want a workhouse at the TB position. 

Of course, but like most personnel issues in this program that is a recruiting issue. They need to go recruit a bigger/better back that can run zone read, lead/power, block, and not turn the ball over. I really don't think there is a better option on the roster, despite the strange gE Robinson infatuation. Maybe Leverett someday (from what I've heard).

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
I guess if you're just trying to hang on for dear life to win a game and sputter, fiddle fart around, get your QB hit 27 to 30 times a game with no real ability to change a game or rip off long runs.  Than Hubes is the guy, he knows the playbook, gets his assignment most of the time, and doesn't fumble much.    :thumbsup:

Getting the assignments right (most of the time) is particulary important when your two best receivers are out of the game, and the defense is keying on your QB running game.   That's really when you don't want a workhouse at the TB position. 

Of course, but like most personnel issues in this program that is a recruiting issue. They need to go recruit a bigger/better back that can run zone read, lead/power, block, and not turn the ball over. I really don't think there is a better option on the roster, despite the strange gE Robinson infatuation. Maybe Leverett someday (from what I've heard).

How can Robinson be an infatuation if he's only played like 2 plays? You know as well as I do that hyper conservativism anal rententivity probably keeps a higher number of talented players off the field at K-State more than any other program. Because of the constant (and IMO absurd) desire to check into the "perfect play" that keeps guys off the field when the situation sometimes calls for sticking a guy out and there and seeing what they can do. While it may not be the best example, why is it that a PROFESSIONAL football team can stick Bryce Brown out there for entire series of plays, but LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder can't? Oh I know, B. Brown's mind was in it, he didn't really want to be there, blah, blah, derp, derp, derp. Welp, maybe sometimes guys get that way because they're dealing with a coach who won't play them because they don't catch every audible, check with me, audible again, rush a play jump offsides/call a timeout check with me again nuance of an offense that builds no efficiency or continuity unless you've got 5th year seniors across the board.


Offline 8manpick

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 19148
  • A top quartile binger, poster, and friend
    • View Profile
Lol Arthur/Bryce
:adios:

Offline yoga-like_abana

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 13512
  • Don't @ me boy, cause I ain't said crap
    • View Profile

both black!

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
I changed it, don't eff up this thread.

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
I guess if you're just trying to hang on for dear life to win a game and sputter, fiddle fart around, get your QB hit 27 to 30 times a game with no real ability to change a game or rip off long runs.  Than Hubes is the guy, he knows the playbook, gets his assignment most of the time, and doesn't fumble much.    :thumbsup:

Getting the assignments right (most of the time) is particulary important when your two best receivers are out of the game, and the defense is keying on your QB running game.   That's really when you don't want a workhouse at the TB position. 

Of course, but like most personnel issues in this program that is a recruiting issue. They need to go recruit a bigger/better back that can run zone read, lead/power, block, and not turn the ball over. I really don't think there is a better option on the roster, despite the strange gE Robinson infatuation. Maybe Leverett someday (from what I've heard).

How can Robinson be an infatuation if he's only played like 2 plays? You know as well as I do that hyper conservativism anal rententivity probably keeps a higher number of talented players off the field at K-State more than any other program. Because of the constant (and IMO absurd) desire to check into the "perfect play" that keeps guys off the field when the situation sometimes calls for sticking a guy out and there and seeing what they can do. While it may not be the best example, why is it that a PROFESSIONAL football team can stick Bryce Brown out there for entire series of plays, but LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder can't? Oh I know, B. Brown's mind was in it, he didn't really want to be there, blah, blah, derp, derp, derp. Welp, maybe sometimes guys get that way because they're dealing with a coach who won't play them because they don't catch every audible, check with me, audible again, rush a play jump offsides/call a timeout check with me again nuance of an offense that builds no efficiency or continuity unless you've got 5th year seniors across the board.



I'm just saying people want Robinson to play.

And while there is truth to your complaint about Snyder, its still about recruiting guys that fit IMO.

Hubert started at RB as a SO. Lockett and Thompson at WR as FR, Finney and Whitehair as olinemen as FR, even McDonald at TE played quite a bit as a FR/SO. There are tons of other examples and lots of players that start or play a lot under Snyder that haven't been 5th year seniors, so there is more to it than just being in the system a while.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
I guess if you're just trying to hang on for dear life to win a game and sputter, fiddle fart around, get your QB hit 27 to 30 times a game with no real ability to change a game or rip off long runs.  Than Hubes is the guy, he knows the playbook, gets his assignment most of the time, and doesn't fumble much.    :thumbsup:

Getting the assignments right (most of the time) is particulary important when your two best receivers are out of the game, and the defense is keying on your QB running game.   That's really when you don't want a workhouse at the TB position. 

Of course, but like most personnel issues in this program that is a recruiting issue. They need to go recruit a bigger/better back that can run zone read, lead/power, block, and not turn the ball over. I really don't think there is a better option on the roster, despite the strange gE Robinson infatuation. Maybe Leverett someday (from what I've heard).

How can Robinson be an infatuation if he's only played like 2 plays? You know as well as I do that hyper conservativism anal rententivity probably keeps a higher number of talented players off the field at K-State more than any other program. Because of the constant (and IMO absurd) desire to check into the "perfect play" that keeps guys off the field when the situation sometimes calls for sticking a guy out and there and seeing what they can do. While it may not be the best example, why is it that a PROFESSIONAL football team can stick Bryce Brown out there for entire series of plays, but LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder can't? Oh I know, B. Brown's mind was in it, he didn't really want to be there, blah, blah, derp, derp, derp. Welp, maybe sometimes guys get that way because they're dealing with a coach who won't play them because they don't catch every audible, check with me, audible again, rush a play jump offsides/call a timeout check with me again nuance of an offense that builds no efficiency or continuity unless you've got 5th year seniors across the board.



I'm just saying people want Robinson to play.

And while there is truth to your complaint about Snyder, its still about recruiting guys that fit IMO.

Hubert started at RB as a SO. Lockett and Thompson at WR as FR, Finney and Whitehair as olinemen as FR, even McDonald at TE played quite a bit as a FR/SO. There are tons of other examples and lots of players that start or play a lot under Snyder that haven't been 5th year seniors, so there is more to it than just being in the system a while.

My comment about the system had to do with guys being kept off the field because they don't pick up every little nuance, and my comment about 5th year seniors is that it seems that the only time K-State ever approaches something resembling an efficent non disjointed offense is when there's lots of experience.   I see other programs who plug under classman and they're still extremely efficent.   But that really has more to do with recruiting. 


Offline Panjandrum

  • 5 o'clock Shadow Enthusiast
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11221
  • Amateur magician and certified locksmith.
    • View Profile
    • Bring on the Cats [An SB Nation Blog]
There are tons of other examples and lots of players that start or play a lot under Snyder that haven't been 5th year seniors, so there is more to it than just being in the system a while.

You play because Bill trusts you.  I'm not sure I've every found a truly consistent means of how someone gains his trust (other than not turning the ball over), but if he trusts a FR more, he'll play.

And when he trusts you, he'll play you even when there's overwhelming evidence that you shouldn't be on the field at all.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45942
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Hubert is better and or more productive than most RBs that Snyder, or Prince, has had the last 20 years. The list of those clearly better/more productive is short

Darren Sproles
Daniel Thomas
James Johnson

I'd listen to an argument for Frank Murphy but he didn't produce numbers. Snyder has had good running QBs that overshadowed or more accurately negated the need for a feature back. This is why I think the 2003 team was unquestionably the best we've had.

Josh Scobey

MIR, when you include Scobey in your original post, you’re really not giving Hubert a compliment.  And quite honestly, that’s probably accurate. He’s a slightly above average running back.  He’s Hickson, but got to play against defenses that weren’t designed to stop the run.

I wasn't really trying to compliment Hubert. My point is we haven't had some extensive history of great running backs on great teams, we really haven't needed them. Aside from Sproles our best running backs have excelled when we had below average quarterbacks.

Also I forgot Daniel Thomas. He also fits the narrative of good rb, below average qb.

Offline ArchE_Cat

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1097
    • View Profile
I've made the point before that I think a major reason Hubert has won the job is the heavy use of zone read and stretch read in the current manifestation of Snyder's offense. But he's also decent (especially for his size) of running power/zone stuff, mainly because he's not prone to bounce his runs, but stays vertical. I'm not sure that a lot of those past backs would've been very good with zone read stuff either.

I completely agree regarding the zone read and stretch play. Only Sproles would have been better in this area. The staff knows Hubert's strengths as a RB, but have failed to use play calling to take advantage of it. They've attempted to take advantage of Hubert in the passing game (10 receptions this year so far, only 18 total last year) but the timing of calls has been poor. Hubert was effective last year because the play calling was taking what the defense would give us and using formations/alignment variations to set up subsequent plays. They've struggled with that this year. K-State's margin for error is very small and turnovers and poor play calling are essentially creating a zero margin of error situation for the offense this year.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 3411
  • Square
    • View Profile
I have heard DMac has sickle cell trait, I think that has something to do with it.  :dunno:

Offline Sandstone Outcropping

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 11087
  • a punk who rarely ever took advice
    • View Profile
Daniel Thomas was such a stud.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 9740
    • View Profile
doesnt fumble and blocks decent. ill take that over some guy who cant block and fumbles a lot.
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
How do you know if any of other running backs fumble a lot or can't block?   

Guys have to get acclamated to game speed.    If guys are having issues, than you put them in a game situations where you allow them to do the things they do well.   Sometimes just lining up and executing trumps trying to check into the "perfect play".   But that's not the Snyder system. 


Offline eastcat

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2502
  • Labeled by children.
    • View Profile
If we are building for the future with Sams at QB then we should be building for the future with Leverett at RB.

Quote
A quality athlete who shined on the scout team during his redshirt season... Will be in the mix to play at running back and on special teams.

2012: Redshirted... Earned the team's Red Raider Award as the top contributor on the scout team.

HIGH SCHOOL: Was ranked as the eighth-best running back in Texas by the Houston Chronicle while prepping at Cypress Lake... Also named to the newspaper's Texas Top 100 list... Was named the school's MVP as a sophomore in track.

KState 2025 2015

Offline timhawk

  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 1929
    • View Profile
Hubert.....1st team big 12 tho
everyone is jealous

Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38024
    • View Profile
If we are building for the future with Sams at QB then we should be building for the future with Leverett at RB.

Quote
A quality athlete who shined on the scout team during his redshirt season... Will be in the mix to play at running back and on special teams.

2012: Redshirted... Earned the team's Red Raider Award as the top contributor on the scout team.

HIGH SCHOOL: Was ranked as the eighth-best running back in Texas by the Houston Chronicle while prepping at Cypress Lake... Also named to the newspaper's Texas Top 100 list... Was named the school's MVP as a sophomore in track.

KState 2025 2015

We are. He is redshirting so he will still be a Kansas State Wildcat in 2017.

Offline eastcat

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Katpak'r
  • ***
  • Posts: 2502
  • Labeled by children.
    • View Profile
If we are building for the future with Sams at QB then we should be building for the future with Leverett at RB.

Quote
A quality athlete who shined on the scout team during his redshirt season... Will be in the mix to play at running back and on special teams.

2012: Redshirted... Earned the team's Red Raider Award as the top contributor on the scout team.

HIGH SCHOOL: Was ranked as the eighth-best running back in Texas by the Houston Chronicle while prepping at Cypress Lake... Also named to the newspaper's Texas Top 100 list... Was named the school's MVP as a sophomore in track.

KState 2025 2015

We are. He is redshirting so he will still be a Kansas State Wildcat in 2017.

He already redshirted. He is active on the roster now.

Offline sonofdaxjones

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 59712
    • View Profile
Let me guess, Leverett missed a check down, followed by a check-with-me and subsequent snap at .05 on the play clock at the 2 hour and 54 minute mark of a practice in August and was immediately moved to the "not trustworthy" list and relegated to the sidelines??


Offline Rage Against the McKee

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38024
    • View Profile
If we are building for the future with Sams at QB then we should be building for the future with Leverett at RB.

Quote
A quality athlete who shined on the scout team during his redshirt season... Will be in the mix to play at running back and on special teams.

2012: Redshirted... Earned the team's Red Raider Award as the top contributor on the scout team.

HIGH SCHOOL: Was ranked as the eighth-best running back in Texas by the Houston Chronicle while prepping at Cypress Lake... Also named to the newspaper's Texas Top 100 list... Was named the school's MVP as a sophomore in track.

KState 2025 2015

We are. He is redshirting so he will still be a Kansas State Wildcat in 2017.

He already redshirted. He is active on the roster now.

Oh. Well, he should be on the field, then.

Offline yoga-like_abana

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 13512
  • Don't @ me boy, cause I ain't said crap
    • View Profile
Let me guess, Leverett missed a check down, followed by a check-with-me and subsequent snap at .05 on the play clock at the 2 hour and 54 minute mark of a practice in August and was immediately moved to the "not trustworthy" list and relegated to the sidelines??

lol, thats exactly what happened