DOJ says school vouchers are racist

[Institutional Control]

I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?

Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.

I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.

True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.

sounds like something a moderate would post

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?

Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.

I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.

True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.

The libtards have been more libtarded recently.

[michigancat]

acknowdlege desegregating school is a rough ridin' stupid idea.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

acknowdlege desegregating school is a rough ridin' stupid idea.

Libtard is as libtard does
- Forrest Gump

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

School voucher programs help low income students escape squalid public schools. These vouchers generally don't cost any additional money: they are paid for by money earmarked for the public schools, which is a major reason why the teacher's unions hate them. That money is already allocated based on number of students, so the voucher system just takes the money allocated per student (usually less, actually), and just offers it to the student in the form of a voucher to help that student afford to attend a school without graffiti, gangs, and rough ridin' metal detectors at the entrances.

Liberals oppose school voucher systems because (1) it's what the teacher's unions want them to do, and (2) liberals are inherently opposed to choice unless it concerns social issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc. They hate the possibility that certain people would try to better their situation by seeking a different education. To your typical libtard, this just isn't fair that some kids should get a better education than others (unless it's their kids), and so it's better if all kids (except theirs) get an equally shitty education.

Simply put, if you're opposed to school vouchers, you're a rough ridin' moron. Even the head of D.C. public schools Michelle Rhee now supports them. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/04/michelle-rhee-my-break-with-the-democrats.html

But you know what's even dumber than opposing school vouchers? The Department of Liberal Politics (formerly DOJ) suing to stop a voucher program because it enhances segregation, despite the fact the vast majority of voucher recipients are minorities.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I oppose vouchers because I don't want my tax money going toward private education. If people want private schools to accept low income kids, then maybe they could start a scholarship foundation for those schools with private donations.

[star seed 7]

So instead of using that money to improve the "bad" school, they just ship a few lucky students out and are like "oh well" about the rest? Sounds like normal Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) logic from k-s-u-bigot.

[michigancat]

Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

So instead of using that money to improve the "bad" school, they just ship a few lucky students out and are like "oh well" about the rest? Sounds like normal Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) logic from k-s-u-bigot.

They've been using all that money to "improve" the urban public schools for years. The schools have gotten worse. I would encourage you to read the article I linked above about Michelle Rhee (from Daily Beast, a generally liberal publication). She used to drink the kool-aid, too. Now she's wised up. Educate yourself.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?

I'm sure they are probably successful for the few kids who get the vouchers. They just reduce school funding for the many kids who don't get them, though.

[michigancat]

Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?

I'm sure they are probably successful for the few kids who get the vouchers. They just reduce school funding for the many kids who don't get them, though.

Are they? Is there any conclusive evidence of this or a similar program improving the overall quality of education? I mean besides an anecdote from a democrat in a generally liberal publication.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I'm kind of curious how the kids who get the vouchers are selected, honestly. I could probably support the program if the vouchers went to kids who are about to flunk out of school. If they are going to kids who are performing well, I don't see the point at all.

[michigancat]

You have to "apply", and you might not get it in. 250% above the poverty line is the cutoff.

http://www.louisianabelieves.com/schools/louisiana-scholarship-program

https://www.policymic.com/articles/46349/louisiana-student-vouchers-private-schools-get-an-f-by-the-program-s-own-standard/626457

[Rage Against the McKee]

You have to "apply", and you might not get it in. 250% above the poverty line is the cutoff.

http://www.louisianabelieves.com/schools/louisiana-scholarship-program

https://www.policymic.com/articles/46349/louisiana-student-vouchers-private-schools-get-an-f-by-the-program-s-own-standard/626457

Well, that makes it look like the program is a massive failure and that the private schools might be even worse than the public schools. 

Maybe skinny benny could chime in as he has experience with the Louisiana school system.

[Rage Against the McKee]

These findings are particularly disappointing when considering the progress made by the Louisiana Department of Education in public schools throughout New Orleans. This year New Orleans public schoolchildren, who used to rank at the far bottom of state performance indicators, are close to closing their gap with the Louisiana average. Behind by just 6 points (an improvement from 26 points in 2000), many education reformers predict these students will soon outperform the state. Since the largest proportion of voucher students come from New Orleans, it is hard to argue these children are better off in private schools.

Although this makes it look like maybe the voucher system is working. Getting the worst kids out of the public school system and into private schools appears to be improving the public schools in New Orleans.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

[michigancat]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

Public school is available to everyone and private school is not. Plus, the public actually has some say in how the money is budgeted and spent at public schools.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.

The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me.

[michigancat]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.

The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me.

It said New Orleans public school students improved relative to the rest of the state, not that that students overall improved. Also, it's not exactly what I'd call "hard data".

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Hey bonercat.  How are they supposed to collect "hard data" if the program is blocked by the doj?

[Rage Against the McKee]

Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school?  Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis.  It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").

I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.

The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me.

It said New Orleans public school students improved relative to the rest of the state, not that that students overall improved. Also, it's not exactly what I'd call "hard data".

True, but we aren't really going to get hard data unless voucher programs become more prevalent. Even then, not all states would use the same standards in selecting their recipients. Most people are going to stick to their own preconceived notions until they actually see some good data to change their mind, and even then, most people aren't smart enough to change their mind in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Personally, my preconceived notion is that public schools attract the best teachers, but cannot get rid of the bad ones, so experiences can vary greatly. I think that private school is a good alternative if you live in an area surrounded by poor people who do not value education because their kids will usually be awful and very distracting to your kid. Still, the parents have by far the most influence in determining the success of their children in school regardless of where they send them. A program that gives vouchers to the worst performing kids in a school, in my mind, will greatly reduce the amount of time teachers in the school have to worry about discipline, so they can focus on their job, while students are less distracted. I don't really think the vouchers are going to make those kids successful, but just getting them out of the public school environment at least gives them a change of scenery and surrounds them with kids who actually care about school.

I don't support a voucher program that just gives scholarships to poor kids who are doing well in public schools, though. What is the point if they are already doing well?

[michigancat]

Still, the parents have by far the most influence in determining the success of their children in school regardless of where they send them.

I disagree with this. (unless you have data showing otherwise, heh). I mean, it's great to be altruistic and all, but when push comes to shove, parents with the means to send their kids to a non-failing school will approximately 100% of the time.

A program that gives vouchers to the worst performing kids in a school, in my mind, will greatly reduce the amount of time teachers in the school have to worry about discipline, so they can focus on their job, while students are less distracted. I don't really think the vouchers are going to make those kids successful, but just getting them out of the public school environment at least gives them a change of scenery and surrounds them with kids who actually care about school.

I don't think the Louisiana program just gives vouchers to the worst students, though. Does anyone do that?

Here's more data from DC, where vouchers have been in effect since 2004:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2012/11/18/d-c-vouchers-what-you-need-to-know/

[michigancat]

Also, I don't understand the notion that parents don't have "choice" without vouchers. Are there laws anywhere preventing anyone from attending a private school?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Also, I don't understand the notion that parents don't have "choice" without vouchers. Are there laws anywhere preventing anyone from attending a private school?

What an elitist POV.