U.S.-NATO Missiles/Bombs on Syria within 15 to 25 days . . .

[Dugout DickStone]

I don't think everything that Obama has done has been bad, not by a long shot.

But what's the endgame in Syria, what was the endgame in Libya . . . the same for Iraq (Not Obama)?

Destroyed/destabilized countries don't pose a threat and easier to control (as long you control the right people)??   That's a serious game of, pardon the pun, Russian Roulette.   Because only a dummy can't see what can be fermented in the rubble.  This also really has nothing to do with Democracy.   For me, Brzezinski's "Grand Chessboard" is the primer for all of this, control of Central Asia, thwarting the influence of Russia and China and their proxies of which Iraq, Syria and Iran are/were the biggest.  JMO

Not sure there is an endgame in Syria.  We haven't committed troops.  We can sit back and watch.

I don't think we want to commit troops.  We (US Gov) doesn't truly care if Assad gases some AQ families so why rush to do crap (except Obama made a vague threat that we would)?  I get the US has to maintain some type of international standing but, in reality, the people that hate us are going to hate us.  Those that think we are soft are going top keep thinking we are soft.  Bombing the crap out of Assad's positions from a month ago won't change that even a little bit.

Those that don't think we are soft won't change and any of them that doubts we have the will or might to decimate a country if truly threatened hasn't paid attention and doesn't understand that even the most liberal of our leaders turns into a hawk when the time is right (their donors ask for a fight). 

[sonofdaxjones]

It's about control of the region, the gassing is just an excuse to exercise more control, the powers that be and have been really don't care if the people there like us or not as long as they control who gets the guns and who doesn't.

This administration as I've said has been looking for the trigger event ever since they decided to overthrow Assad nearly 3 years ago.

[Dugout DickStone]

This administration as I've said has been looking for the trigger event ever since they decided to overthrow Assad nearly fizz years ago.

Clearly not or the bombs would be dropping.

[sonofdaxjones]

This administration as I've said has been looking for the trigger event ever since they decided to overthrow Assad nearly fizz years ago.

Clearly not or the bombs would be dropping.

Oh please, Kerry couldn't wait to march up to the hill and try and build a case for war, the only reason there isn't bombs dropping is because the usual Hawks and the Administration are all alone in wanting to do so, they have zilch in terms of world opinion, zilch in terms of the UN and zilch in terms of US public opinion and the strongest push back yet from Russia and China in the last 10 years.

[OregonSmock]

Dax continues to tiptoe around the fact that he hates Democrats and liberals in general.  President Obama just worked towards an international resolution that doesn't involve military action, and yet, Dax and the rest of the right wing herd are pissed.  They are desperate for a crisis.  This is all a game for them.  Not one mention of the 1400 civilians who were killed by chemical weapons.  Not one mention of the atrocities of the Assad regime.  They just want another excuse to criticize Obama, and somehow justify their hatred for anyone who doesn't suck the collective male genitals of the Republican party.

[OregonSmock]

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/09/10/the-president-makes-the-case/

I’m tired of the eye-rolling and the easy nit-picking of the president’s leadership on this over the last few weeks. The truth is: his threat of war galvanized the world and America, raised the profile of the issue of chemical weapons more powerfully than ever before, ensured that this atrocity would not be easily ignored and fostered a diplomatic initiative to resolve the issue without use of arms. All the objectives he has said he wanted from the get-go are now within reach, and the threat of military force – even if implicit – remains.

Yes, it’s been messy. A more cautious president would have ducked it. Knowing full well it could scramble his presidency, Obama nonetheless believed that stopping chemical weapons use is worth it – for the long run, and for Americans as well as Syrians. Putin understands this as well. Those chemical weapons, if uncontrolled, could easily slip into the hands of rebels whose second target, after Assad and the Alawites and the Christians, would be Russia.

This emphatically does not solve the Syria implosion. But Obama has never promised to.

What it does offer is a nonviolent way toward taking the chemical weapons issue off the table. Just because we cannot solve everything does not mean we cannot solve something. And the core truth is that without Obama’s willingness to go out on a precarious limb, we would not have that opportunity.

The money quote for me, apart from the deeply moving passage about poison gas use at the end, was his description of a letter from a service-member who told him, “We should not be the world’s policeman.” President Obama said, quite simply: “I agree.” And those on the far right who are accusing him of ceding the Middle East to Russia are half-right and yet completely wrong. What this remarkable breakthrough has brought about is a possible end to the dynamic in which America is both blamed for all the evils in the world and then also blamed for not stopping all of them. We desperately need to rebuild international cooperation to relieve us of that impossible burden in a cycle that can only hurt us and the West again and again.

[Institutional Control]

Is dax right wing? I don't get that impression.

[Dugout DickStone]

This administration as I've said has been looking for the trigger event ever since they decided to overthrow Assad nearly fizz years ago.

Clearly not or the bombs would be dropping.

Oh please, Kerry couldn't wait to march up to the hill and try and build a case for war, the only reason there isn't bombs dropping is because the usual Hawks and the Administration are all alone in wanting to do so, they have zilch in terms of world opinion, zilch in terms of the UN and zilch in terms of US public opinion and the strongest push back yet from Russia and China in the last buzz years.

Couldn't wait?  How long between the reports of gas and his request?

[Cire]

Obama's cuban missile crisis?

[sonofdaxjones]

Beems just spews forth the party line.   He says the same $hit, just different ways in every post.

How can anyone possibly say there's been a resolution, when to the general public's knowledge there hasn't been any chemical weapons turned over as of yet, fighting still continues, Russia still arms Assad's regime and the U.S. is still training "freedom fighters", and using proxies to support the radical Islamic fighters that are in Syria right now??

Absurd

[sonofdaxjones]

But, but an International Resolution?!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24051440

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Syrian-rebel-forces-trained-by-West-are-moving-towards-Damascus-324033

[felix rex]

It's pretty great that Beems found an editorial saying seriously what we've been saying sarcastically. What a day for Dax.

[OregonSmock]

I'm sorry you've accepted the right wing rhetoric when it comes to Obama and Syria, felix.  Personally, I oppose airstrikes on Syria, and I'm glad that Putin stepped up and offered a Plan B.  The fact that Obama is willing to strongly consider another option besides airstrikes is the very reason I voted for him.  He's pragmatic and doesn't let the threat of personal criticism dictate his decision-making.   

[bubbles4ksu]

The objective eye has called out felix rex for his tainted views.

[felix rex]

but forget to mention that Obama has us trending down as a global arms supplier. That's a pretty great accomplishment. Probably like the first president in a bunch of decades to do that.

[sonofdaxjones]

Felix Rex and right wing rhetoric??   

Beems Chamberlain and the redefining of "peace in our time", hey, as long as the people are JUST dying from conventional weapons, that's a "brokered resolution".

[OregonSmock]

Felix Rex and right wing rhetoric??   

Beems Chamberlain and the redefining of "peace in our time", hey, as long as the people are JUST dying from conventional weapons, that's a "brokered resolution".

You offer nothing but criticism, despite the fact that the US is trying to avoid military action.  What's your solution for Syria, Captain Pacifist? 

[sonofdaxjones]

Felix Rex and right wing rhetoric??   

Beems Chamberlain and the redefining of "peace in our time", hey, as long as the people are JUST dying from conventional weapons, that's a "brokered resolution".

You offer nothing but criticism, despite the fact that the US is trying to avoid military action.  What's your solution for Syria, Captain Pacifist?

The only reason the U.S. is "avoiding" military action is because world opinion is totally against it and the U.S. has no mandate on any level.  Not from the people, not from the UN, and not from the U.S.'s legislative bodies.   Had this administration been given that mandate by any of the formal entities in that set, the U.S. would likely already be bombing.   

It's absolutely laughable that you don't consider the purposeful training of, the logistical support of, the brokering of 3rd parties in support of these so called "freedom fighters" by the United States acts of war.   If the same actions were executed against the United States by other nations or entities they would be considered acts of war against the United States. 

Then to call this situation resolved?  Laughable. 

Here's a solution, how about the United States quit sowing chaos in the Middle East.

[felix rex]

Not to be argumentative, but I'd say we're not really sowing chaos so much as fertilizing it.

[star seed 7]

Plus, let's not forget Felix, 2012 was a blockbuster year in U.S. exports, twe-nty billion above the t-en year average, come on, even Gordon Gekko can't expect that kind of growth to be sustained.

i assume this is to get around the word filter, but it's so daxy that i really don't know for sure   

[bubbles4ksu]

I can't stop thinking about how Barry The Messiah went to Congress to ask if we could drop bombs. That hasn't happened for decades. It's such a great signal for future American foreign policy. He deserves a statue while still in office just like our guy Bill.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I can't stop thinking about how Barry The Messiah went to Congress to ask if we could drop bombs. That hasn't happened for decades. It's such a great signal for future American foreign policy. He deserves a statue while still in office just like our guy Bill.

He's just following in GWB's footsteps when he got approval from congress to go into Iraq.

[Dugout DickStone]

I can't stop thinking about how Barry The Messiah went to Congress to ask if we could drop bombs. That hasn't happened for decades. It's such a great signal for future American foreign policy. He deserves a statue while still in office just like our guy Bill.

He's just following in GWB's footsteps when he got approval from congress to go into Iraq.

And he didn't even lie about it.  Progress!

[OregonSmock]

Felix Rex and right wing rhetoric??   

Beems Chamberlain and the redefining of "peace in our time", hey, as long as the people are JUST dying from conventional weapons, that's a "brokered resolution".

You offer nothing but criticism, despite the fact that the US is trying to avoid military action.  What's your solution for Syria, Captain Pacifist?

The only reason the U.S. is "avoiding" military action is because world opinion is totally against it and the U.S. has no mandate on any level.  Not from the people, not from the UN, and not from the U.S.'s legislative bodies.   Had this administration been given that mandate by any of the formal entities in that set, the U.S. would likely already be bombing.   

It's absolutely laughable that you don't consider the purposeful training of, the logistical support of, the brokering of 3rd parties in support of these so called "freedom fighters" by the United States acts of war.   If the same actions were executed against the United States by other nations or entities they would be considered acts of war against the United States. 

Then to call this situation resolved?  Laughable. 

Here's a solution, how about the United States quit sowing chaos in the Middle East.

You're a rough ridin' joke.  The United States isn't slaughtering over a hundred thousand of our own people right now in the midst of a civil war.  If we were, I would welcome intervention from other countries.  As it is, the US and Russia are trying to work towards a diplomatic solution to disarm Syria's chemical weapons.  The only reason Russia is working with us is because they know the United States is serious about military airstrikes, and Syria is one of their main trading partners.  Up until this point, this administration has done everything in its power to avoid military intervention in the Middle East, including ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. 

Your solution is vague and disingenuous at best.  In a global economy, we can't just sit back and let chaos unfold in the Middle East.  We can't just sit back and wait for another terrorist attack like ni-ne/eleven.  We can't just sit back and watch as fundamentalist extremists butcher little girls for trying to get an education. 

And last but not least, I have never said that this situation in Syria is "resolved," only that the US and Russia are working towards a resolution.  Don't you dare try to put words in my mouth. 

edit - this fizz/buzz bullshit is the dumbest rough ridin' thing I've ever seen.  Hey cool, you guys have played beer die.  Awesome.

[michigancat]

Not to be argumentative, but I'd say we're not really sowing chaos so much as fertilizing it.

I, for one, am glad the administration gaffed and blundered their way out of a war. It's far superior to prestigiously starting (or joining) one.