Author Topic: Let's Chat About the Merits & Deficiencies of College Athletes' Amateur Status  (Read 12518 times)

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Offline DQ12

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Talking about the pros misses the point. It's the guys like Tebow, Klein, Crouch, Huepel, Applewhite, and probably Manziel who make millions and millions for their schools but can't make it in the pros who are getting screwed.
people keep throwing this "getting screwed" phrase around as if these guys didn't decide on their own accord to play college sports.

They don't have a choice.
The thing is, they do have a choice.  No one is making them choose to pursue their wildly unlikely NFL dreams.  Their toil is one they chose.


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Offline Ira Hayes

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Talking about the pros misses the point. It's the guys like Tebow, Klein, Crouch, Huepel, Applewhite, and probably Manziel who make millions and millions for their schools but can't make it in the pros who are getting screwed.
people keep throwing this "getting screwed" phrase around as if these guys didn't decide on their own accord to play college sports.

They don't have a choice.
The thing is, they do have a choice.  No one is making them choose to pursue their wildly unlikely NFL dreams.  Their toil is one they chose.

You're right. I chose not to play. Maybe that's why I'm falling on the side that thinks they work too hard for what they get.

Offline NDSU Lollypopkid

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the D  league and  minor league baseball are evidence of the apathy sports fans have for 2nd tier pro sports.  The billions being made by BCS  schools has more to do with the schools than the players.

A&M made a whole lot more money winning with Johnny Manziel then they made the year before when they were losing with Ryan Tannehill. You might remember that Tannehill was the eighth pick in the NFL draft, started 15 games last year for the Dolphins, and will make millions.

Does that have more to do with the school or more to do with having a player who is better suited to the college game?
Id say the latter...but it helps to have a character like Manziel who plays entertaining....people know Tannehill more for his wifes clubfoot.

What still irritates me most about any of this...is how the NCAA had Johnny Manziel, Jadaveon Clowney, Tajh Boyd etc in the search engine linked up to sell merchandise of an unlicensed player....but then yanked it when they got caught with their pants down by a national pundit....pathetic. Im sure Klein would love to see a buck after his name was in the engines last year
titletown..lulz

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Making a profit doesn't seem very christian, CK does not approve.  :don'tcare:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline DQ12

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they work too hard for what they get.
Of course they work too hard for what they get.  But a lot of professions (teachers, nurses, firefighters) involve working too hard for the return.  But people choose career paths knowing full well that the market is oversaturated but they choose that path because maybe they didn't have any other option or maybe they were tempted to chance it because if they succeed the return could be huge.

If we're going to call college football a "career path" with a straight face and start analyzing whether potential future pro athletes have "other choices," then we need to recognize that choosing that career path is a wildly reckless choice that has no guaranteed further return than a free college education and an absolute ton of work.

I really think that college football (and the money associated with it) only exists if schools are able to offer players equal monetary benefits.  Otherwise, I think college football, the money and any immediate monetary benefits awarded to 18 year olds who are good at football cease to exist.


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Offline Trim

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Right now the salary cap in college football is zero.  This purportedly keeps the playing field level between schools.

So quantify the actual benefits a player gets, and allow schools to compensate on top of that with money, travel vouchers, etc.  Then put a salary cap on the schools and let them manage recruiting/retaining players while staying under the cap. 

And keep any other sort of compensation, like money for autographs, a violation.

:dunno:

Offline eastcat

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Schools should be able to give objects but not money. It would be super entertaining to watch them try to one up each other with crazy gifts.

Offline Shacks

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:dnr: this whole thread but I've posted my thoughts on the best way to fix this before and I'll post them again.  Offer all scholarship players a big lump sum payment of $50K upon graduation, paid directly by the NCAA.  It promotes the student part of student-athlete, it rewards players for their years of making bags of money for the NCAA and if the NCAA controls it and pays everyone the same amount certain schools won't get an unfair advantage under this system of paying the players.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Many of the scenarios put forth in this thread, if they were to occur will have entities of various political agendas, academic constituencies and axe grinders lined up down the hall to sit in front of Congress to tell them why the non profit status of BCS level schools should be revoked.

Not to detract from the individual player discussion, but this is why I think the big conference commish's are only going to fire shots across the bow of the NCAA.   Because at the end of the day, they know, and the Pres's know that if there was a break away of BCS level schools from the NCAA. There would be an uprising for non profit revocation and/or a zealot like monitoring by women's groups of Title IX compliance by the break aways which in all probability would lead to a litany of lawsuits.    Of course from a break away you'd see a movement towards playing players etc. etc.   Thus, when you toss it all in a bowl in mix, the end of college athletics as we know it. 

Despite how much I like college athletics, it really has become absurd on many levels, and there's been a trickle down to even smaller schools.   Greedy athletic departments paying greedy coaches.   Colleges and Universities jacking up tuition and fees at rates that far outpace inflation causing greedy athletic departments to have to pay money hungry schools millions upon millions in tuition and fees for their athletes.   Which in turns drive greedy athletic departments to have to shake every last dollar out of their constituencies.   Not to mention the facilities arms race which despite my interest in them has gotten absurd.   This segues right into the division of the major conference school athletes from the regular student body.   Oregon (for example) athletes/football players get to cocoon themselves in a facility that rivals in amenities the poshest corporate headquarter settings of the world's most succesful companies.   Then leads into athletes on that level arguing that they deserve the leather bound coaches, 80 inch flat screen players lounges, juice bars, new dorms which are clearly athletic dorms disguised as high end student dorms et. al. because of all the time they put into it and the money they make the school.   Which in turn leads us right back to the main point of this thread, rinse and repeat.   

I didn't even mention the absurdity of the non-profit oversight body that makes billions of dollars, pays its senior staff fat salaries, operates a fleet of corporate jets and generally lives a corporate lifestyle rivaling senior management at many Fortune 150 companies.

No need to scratch your head about why there's academic entities that want to blow the whole thing up. 





Offline Kat Kid

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If the players aren't being exploited, not much would change if the market were opened up, correct?
In the post you quoted, I acknowledged that the players may be being exploited, but if they were, it seems like it's the NFL exploiting them in the ways KK brought up. 

I'm all for the market being opened up in some capacity, but I don't think that's the NCAA's or colleges' role.

I think michigancat's point and the part you are missing is that the NCAA is colliding to close off the marketplace with the NFL to their mutual benefit and to the player's detriment. 

The reason why the CFL is not equivalent is that it is not populated with a comparable pool of talent, thus the TV dollars will never approach that of college football.  Which prevents it from threatening the NFL or college football in any way.

So you are right there could be a trailblazer that decides to opt out, but the institutional barriers to entry in to a fair marketplace that matches talent and teams are enormous and in the aggregate prevent college athletes from challenging the system because their individual earning potential would likely be harmed.

Offline OregonSmock

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

Offline michigancat

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally

Offline OregonSmock

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

Offline michigancat

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

I'm just talking about from school to school. You think a degree from Duke or Stanford = a degree from Southern Miss?

Offline OregonSmock

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

I'm just talking about from school to school. You think a degree from Duke or Stanford = a degree from Southern Miss?


No, I don't.  Your point is completely valid, and I agree with you.  I just think the result of paying college athletes would be an even bigger clustereff than the one we currently have.  Like you pointed out, not every degree is equal... not every college football program is equal.  Not every player is equal.  Johnny Manziel (if eligible) is worth way more than just about any player out there in terms of market value, so how would he be compensated in relation to the 4th string, redshirt freshman QB at UTEP?  It's just a nightmare even pondering these sorts of things.

Offline michigancat

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

I'm just talking about from school to school. You think a degree from Duke or Stanford = a degree from Southern Miss?


No, I don't.  Your point is completely valid, and I agree with you.  I just think the result of paying college athletes would be an even bigger clustereff than the one we currently have.  Like you pointed out, not every degree is equal... not every college football program is equal.  Not every player is equal.  Johnny Manziel (if eligible) is worth way more than just about any player out there in terms of market value, so how would he be compensated in relation to the 4th string, redshirt freshman QB at UTEP?  It's just a nightmare even pondering these sorts of things.

Um, Manziel should be paid significantly more than the RS freshman QB at UTEP.

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Bill took away Ell's scholarship for his last semester in one of the biggest dick moves in history.


 :frown:

Sad that he would do that to the greatest QB this university has ever had
« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 01:25:12 PM by EllRobersonisInnocent »

Offline OregonSmock

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

I'm just talking about from school to school. You think a degree from Duke or Stanford = a degree from Southern Miss?


No, I don't.  Your point is completely valid, and I agree with you.  I just think the result of paying college athletes would be an even bigger clustereff than the one we currently have.  Like you pointed out, not every degree is equal... not every college football program is equal.  Not every player is equal.  Johnny Manziel (if eligible) is worth way more than just about any player out there in terms of market value, so how would he be compensated in relation to the 4th string, redshirt freshman QB at UTEP?  It's just a nightmare even pondering these sorts of things.

Um, Manziel should be paid significantly more than the RS freshman QB at UTEP.


Yes, he should, but would he, and how much more would he be compensated?  Like I said, clustereff.

Offline michigancat

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Yes, he should, but would he, and how much more would he be compensated?  Like I said, clustereff.

it isn't that hard, you could start by implementing salary caps and letting the teams decide who gets paid and how much (within their salary cap).

Offline 'taterblast

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Yes, he should, but would he, and how much more would he be compensated?  Like I said, clustereff.

it isn't that hard, you could start by implementing salary caps and letting the teams decide who gets paid and how much (within their salary cap).

that sounds rough ridin' awful. also where does the money come from? just football and basketball? is it a yearly contract? monthly?

Offline michigancat

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Yes, he should, but would he, and how much more would he be compensated?  Like I said, clustereff.

it isn't that hard, you could start by implementing salary caps and letting the teams decide who gets paid and how much (within their salary cap).

that sounds rough ridin' awful. also where does the money come from? just football and basketball? is it a yearly contract? monthly?

The money comes from all the rough ridin' money schools are making from TV and donations. It can apply to any sport (each sport will have their own salary cap). yearly contract.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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I think the college sports should be for amateurs who just aren't good enough to play pro sports, therefore they don't get paid. The villain in my eyes is the NFL. I would really like congress to step in and pass a law that says if you meet the minimum age under federal law to work a job (16) and are good enough to perform that job, a company or corporate entity cannot set rules that discriminate based upon age.

Offline EllRobersonisInnocent

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Missy Franklin (go USA!) dominated the Olympics and couldn't accept any of the prize money for being the best in the world.   :dunno:

Offline michigancat

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Missy Franklin (go USA!) dominated the Olympics and couldn't accept any of the prize money for being the best in the world.   :dunno:

which reminds me that players should be allowed to receive endorsement contracts.

Offline DOD Take 2

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Paying amateur athletes is a slippery slope, and it opens up a whole new can of worms in the world of sports.  Would each college football player from each team make the same amount of money?  If not, what process would you use to determine how much player x makes vs. how much player y makes?  It's just a giant clustereff waiting to happen.  I agree with dlew... these guys get free tuition, free room and board, free clothing, free food, scholarship stipends, etc, etc.  I can see the argument from the athletes' point of view as well, because a lot of these players do generate millions of dollars for their athletic departments, but at the end of the day, the best players will be rewarded for their performance with huge salaries in the NFL, and others will receive a free education and a world of opportunities after college.

you're implying it already isn't a giant clusterfuck and that all college degrees should be valued equally


The first part, yes... the second part, no.  A lot of athletes get very good job placement after school, and many of them have access to coaching positions and graduate assistant jobs that most students don't.

I'm just talking about from school to school. You think a degree from Duke or Stanford = a degree from Southern Miss?

The value of those degrees should factor in to a recruits decision on which school he wants to attend. If he chooses to attend Southern Miss for any number of reasons (likes the coach, facilities, campus, chance to win), then those those reasons have to outweigh the possibility of being a Duke graduate.