Division 4

[cas4ksu]

SIAP. I'm not usually a fan of Dodd but I thought this was interesting.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/dennis-dodd/22847993/life-to-the-bcs-look-for-division-4-to-revolutionize-college-athletics

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

[eastcat]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

Judging from your response and screen name, you attended a small school.. Amirite?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

Judging from your response and screen name, you attended a small school.. Amirite?

Yes. Kansas State University.

[Shacks]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

I am surprised that no politicians are saying anything about large public institutions acting like corporations when it comes to conference re-alignment and screwing over other public institutions to make a few more bucks

[GoodForAnother]

 

[Havs]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

I am surprised that no politicians are saying anything about large public institutions acting like corporations when it comes to conference re-alignment and screwing over other public institutions to make a few more bucks

Senator from Wyoming or vs Senator from Texas... hmmmm, who will win that argument?

[TheHamburglar]

I doubt the power5 break off on their own. If they don't get a plan from the NCAA to allow full cost of scholarship/stipends by January, then I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't start an official push for a new division. However, I'm guessing they would come up with what they want the rules for the new division to look like and give other schools a chance to look at it and determine if its something they want to be a part of or can afford.  If enough say yes, then 1-2 AAC/MWC type conferences would probably be involved. They'd also probably allow one game a year against an opponent down a level. At that point what are the politicians going to do?  Hey, we gave you a chance Utah State, Troy State, and Georgia Southern, but you said no. Here is a place for other schools like you with the rule structure that you like.


I don't think it's so much the power 5want to be on their own, I think it's they want to be able to set up the rules how they want them.  If Tulsa, Boise St, and UCF want to play by the new rules and pay stipends, then fine. Just don't start fighting the new rules.  We'll still let you come to our place and lose.

If that happened, sounds great to me.

[Panjandrum]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

I am surprised that no politicians are saying anything about large public institutions acting like corporations when it comes to conference re-alignment and screwing over other public institutions to make a few more bucks

It depends on how you restructure.

Let's say the 66 schools (5 major conferences plus BYU and ND) decide that they will be a part of this new division.  They have the means and the willingness to participate.  Below them will be, maybe, 10-20 other schools willing to do what they can to stay in "Division 4".  You'll most likely see members of the AAC, MWC, and CUSA that are willing and able leave their respective conferences and band together to create one major, consolidated conference beneath them.  Cincy, UConn, USF, UCF, Boise, CSU, etc.  It could be one gigantic 16-20 member conference similar to the C-USA/MWC merger that was rumored to take place a couple of years ago.

So, now you'll have 80-90 members in Division 4.  What you'd most likely be doing is moving the 30-40 schools that aren't willing or able to be in D4 bolster the FCS ranks or invite a stronger subset of FCS schools into a lower level FBS.  Then you'd just say that D4 members can have one non-con game against FBS.  Then we wouldn't see horrible FCS teams get slaughtered for a pay day any longer because your payday games would be KSU/Toledo instead of KSU/SELU.

For the basketball tournament, you can still pay your upper levels a stipend, but if you don't want to separate the tournament, you can just create an open tournament for D4 and D1 schools.  This is where they'd probably expand the tournament to 96-128 teams and create a true play in round. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can probably make it work.  It won't be pretty, but it could be feasible.  In football, I don't think you'll see much of a difference.  Basketball and the non-revenue sports will be pretty different.  You may be able to fight off tax exemption hawks by keeping the NCAA tournament at all levels and or kicking back some playoff money back to the NCAA for distribution to all levels.  I'm sure they can make it work as long as they stay a part of the NCAA.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

I am surprised that no politicians are saying anything about large public institutions acting like corporations when it comes to conference re-alignment and screwing over other public institutions to make a few more bucks

Senator from Wyoming or vs Senator from Texas... hmmmm, who will win that argument?

If the senator from Texas attended UTEP, Texas State, or any number of other small TX schools, they are on the same side. Or maybe the senator from Texas is like me and just likes college football the way it is and doesn't want to watch NFL jr.

[Panjandrum]

And you never know...schools like Wake Forest, BC, Colorado, and Vandy may say, "Screw it," and walk.  I highly, highly doubt it, but you never know.

I think once we get to paying players outside of scholarships, there's going to be a real "Come to Jesus" notion about what you want your university and athletic department to look like.  I think a lot of the private institutions will really think hard about whether or not they want to move up to D4 or change the mission of their athletics department.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

[TheHamburglar]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

Well, let's hope that the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation keeps that from happening, then. We need to be in a position to play 7-8 home games every year.

[Panjandrum]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

Well, let's hope that the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation keeps that from happening, then. We need to be in a position to play 7-8 home games every year.

No matter what happens, I think you can still get 7.  If you have a D4, you "could" probably work out a way to handle inter-conference scheduling so you get 6 home games a year between conference and non-cons.  Then each school "could" play an FBS team if they'd like, and I'm sure those schools would like the payday.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

Well, let's hope that the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation keeps that from happening, then. We need to be in a position to play 7-8 home games every year.

No matter what happens, I think you can still get 7.  If you have a D4, you "could" probably work out a way to handle inter-conference scheduling so you get 6 home games a year between conference and non-cons.  Then each school "could" play an FBS team if they'd like, and I'm sure those schools would like the payday.

You can still get 7, but I really don't think you are going to get 7 games every year, and we will rarely (maybe never) get 8. There just aren't any schools who would be in division 4 who would schedule a 2 for 1 to MHK like the small schools we are scheduling now agree to.

[Panjandrum]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

Well, let's hope that the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation keeps that from happening, then. We need to be in a position to play 7-8 home games every year.

No matter what happens, I think you can still get 7.  If you have a D4, you "could" probably work out a way to handle inter-conference scheduling so you get 6 home games a year between conference and non-cons.  Then each school "could" play an FBS team if they'd like, and I'm sure those schools would like the payday.

You can still get 7, but I really don't think you are going to get 7 games every year, and we will rarely (maybe never) get 8. There just aren't any schools who would be in division 4 who would schedule a 2 for 1 to MHK like the small schools we are scheduling now agree to.

Are your concerns financial or competitive?

If the 5 break away and all play each other all of the time, the TV contracts are going up, and it will offset the need for an 8th home game.

If it's competitive, sure, I get that.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I still really don't think D4 is ever going to happen.

I think Slive and Delaney's last project before they retire will be stipends, and they'll get it. It's up to the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation to change to allow that to happen. If they don't change to allow that to happen within the current structure, those two will change the structure to get it.  The ball is in the Northern Iowas and Central Michigans court to determine if they want to be in a Division 1 where some schools are paying full stipends and they are offering no or partial stipends they can afford.

Well, let's hope that the rest of the NCAA institution voting delegation keeps that from happening, then. We need to be in a position to play 7-8 home games every year.

No matter what happens, I think you can still get 7.  If you have a D4, you "could" probably work out a way to handle inter-conference scheduling so you get 6 home games a year between conference and non-cons.  Then each school "could" play an FBS team if they'd like, and I'm sure those schools would like the payday.

You can still get 7, but I really don't think you are going to get 7 games every year, and we will rarely (maybe never) get 8. There just aren't any schools who would be in division 4 who would schedule a 2 for 1 to MHK like the small schools we are scheduling now agree to.

Are your concerns financial or competitive?

If the 5 break away and all play each other all of the time, the TV contracts are going up, and it will offset the need for an 8th home game.

If it's competitive, sure, I get that.

Competitive, plus I like to attend home games. I know a lot of people don't show up for the small crappy teams, but I also really enjoy beating crappy teams by 50 to kick off the season, too.

[Shacks]

Shitty non-con games are terrible.  They're just the worst, might as well be watching a scrimmage.  As far as I'm concerned K-State only has nine regular season games this year and our season doesn't start until the CTR, which sucks after playing real teams like Miami and UCLA in our non-con schedules the last few years.  If re-alignment means less sacrificial lamb games and more games against teams with a pulse, I'm all for it.

That doesn't mean we should schedule Alabama, Oregon and Ohio State every year, but games against teams that are typically middle of the road in their conference.  You can't tell me with a straight face that you're as excited about Dances With Wolves Aggie, UMass or LA-LA as you were about hosting Miami or opening the season vs UCLA.  Eight home games means nothing if three of them are games.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Sams and Waters are going to light those fools up and it's going to be great, Shacks. We are going to see an ungodly amount of big plays. And sometimes the small schools get all uppity and make a game of it. Were you not the least bit excited about Louisiana Monroe beating Arkansas and Auburn the first 2 weeks of the season last year?

[Shacks]

David beating Goliath is exciting, but it's 1/100.  Games between evenly matched teams are exciting more than 1% of the time.  The majority of the body bag games are slaughters.  UL-Monroe's wins are a lot less impressive in hindsight because Auburn and Pig Aggie were absolute train wrecks (still enjoyable whenever a mid-major beats any SEC team though).

Watching #life run past Miami's defense is just more entertaining than watching him do it to UL-Buy A Win.

[Hurricane Cat]

Sams and Waters are going to light those fools up and it's going to be great, Shacks. We are going to see an ungodly amount of big plays. And sometimes the small schools get all uppity and make a game of it. Were you not the least bit excited about Louisiana Monroe beating Arkansas and Auburn the first 2 weeks of the season last year?

Even though these upsets rarely happen, they are amazing when they do.  It would make me sad if they were no longer possible in a 'new D4'.  I loved it when App State beat Michigan, Utah clobbered Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, Boise beat OU, etc., etc., etc.   

[0.42]

I would really like for some high level politician to start threatening tax exempt status to keep these assholes in check. Good grief. Kicking the crap out of small schools is a huge part of what makes college football great.

I am surprised that no politicians are saying anything about large public institutions acting like corporations when it comes to conference re-alignment and screwing over other public institutions to make a few more bucks

Senator from Wyoming or vs Senator from Texas... hmmmm, who will win that argument?

If the senator from Texas attended UTEP, Texas State, or any number of other small TX schools, they are on the same side. Or maybe the senator from Texas is like me and just likes college football the way it is and doesn't want to watch NFL jr.

Nah. Everyone in the halls of power attended the Big 5. You'd have a few SMU/Rice holdouts but realistically if you can unite the UT/A&M senators on one issue (this one would) then the debate is over before it starts. I'd imagine it's this way in Florida, Ohio, etc.

[TheHamburglar]

One thing that hasn't been brought up here is the playoff system. That's a system setup and managed by all 10 conferences. The power 5 would have to have discussions with the Sun Belt, MAC, and C-USA about the impact in their contacts. At a minimum that would give the schools in those conferences ample warning that something is actually in the works and give them time to call all the FCS and non-football schools. They would have a window to come together and make counter proposals and consessions to try to keep them from forming a new division. Plus, their would be major hurdles in the playoff bowl contracts themselves.

[EMAWzified]

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