Stand Your Ground Laws

[Rage Against the McKee]

How did he find him, then, mortons toe? How did he end up off the road in the grassy area between buildings if he wasn't following him?

Because the kid doubled-back on him. Good gawd 

The location of the dead body doesn't really support that theory.

[mortons toe]

How did he find him, then, mortons toe? How did he end up off the road in the grassy area between buildings if he wasn't following him?

Because the kid doubled-back on him. Good gawd 

also, tell me about this "grassy area" that cut the crap out of the back of GZ's head...

[HeinBallz]

I live the same world as you do, where it's illegal to scare people with guns or other weapons.

Indeed, but that isn't what happened.  Zimm likely did not approach TM with a gun in his hand, and the evidence suggest TM did not know he had a gun until half way through the physical altercation - which corroborates Zimms story. 

What kind of a person attacks another individual holding a gun, then is lucky enough to not only get in a few punches, but take them down to the ground and MMA style slam his head into concrete. Only to get shot after pummeling them.

[star seed 7]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

[mortons toe]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

yes, and there was a witness...

[Rage Against the McKee]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856

Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time. Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges for the death of the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head on the concrete.

[mortons toe]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856

Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time. Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges for the death of the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head on the concrete.

sooo, tell me about this "grassy area" that you referenced...

[michigancat]

Does anyone else think GZ should have let Trayvon know he had a gun before the fight started? "Brandished" it, if you will, at least once Trayvon (allegedly) approached him.

Don't they teach you that at your training for concealed carry?

[Rage Against the McKee]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856

Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time. Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges for the death of the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head on the concrete.

sooo, tell me about this "grassy area" that you referenced...

If the fight went as described by Zimmerman, Martin's body would be next to the "T" in the sidewalk, rather than in the grassy area between the houses.

[michigancat]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856

Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time. Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges for the death of the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head on the concrete.

sooo, tell me about this "grassy area" that you referenced...

Here's the grassy area (not sure where the concrete is).

[mortons toe]

The fight went for 45 to 90 seconds before the shot was fired.   It wasn't 10 seconds. Getting punched in the face for 45 seconds is a LONG time.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/george-zimmerman-jury-told-injuries-insignificant/story?id=19552856

Dr. Valerie Rao testified that Zimmerman was struck as few as three times by Martin during the fight that night. She also asserted his head may have only been slammed on the concrete a single time. Zimmerman, who faces second-degree murder charges for the death of the unarmed teenager, said Martin repeatedly slammed his head on the concrete.

sooo, tell me about this "grassy area" that you referenced...

If the fight went as described by Zimmerman, Martin's body would be next to the "T" in the sidewalk, rather than in the grassy area between the houses.

and this kid couldn't have made it home? GZ has cuts on the back of his head? Do you not see the contradictions in the defense of TM?

Also, do you not think it is possible to stumble some distance before complete loss of motor control? You probably believe the old westerns where the bad guy dies on the spot, right?

[ChiComCat]

The underrated part is where Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman non-violently and asked him why he was being followed.  Zimmerman lied and said he wasn't following him, wasting an opportunity to resolve the issue.

Someone follows you, you ask why and they said they were not, then get out of the car and chased you.  You tried for a straight answer and were clearly lied to your face and have a stranger pursuing you.  Do you not feel threatened by this?  Are you supposed to sit there and ask him again after he clearly lied to you the first time?  This guy is stalking you and lying to your face, I'm not going to assume that we can reasonably hash that out.

[mortons toe]

The underrated part is where Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman non-violently and asked him why he was being followed.  Zimmerman lied and said he wasn't following him, wasting an opportunity to resolve the issue.

Someone follows you, you ask why and they said they were not, then get out of the car and chased you.  You tried for a straight answer and were clearly lied to your face and have a stranger pursuing you.  Do you not feel threatened by this?  Are you supposed to sit there and ask him again after he clearly lied to you the first time?  This guy is stalking you and lying to your face, I'm not going to assume that we can reasonably hash that out.

riiiggghhhttt, and that is why he ran while GZ was still in his truck...

[Dugout DickStone]

I'm curious, lets say Zimmerman didn't have a gun on him and TM didn't kill him, but put him in critical condition - awoke paralyzed or something. Minus the bullet hole, all other evidence is the same.  The bruised knuckles on TM, the battered face of zimm,  the following, the phone calls, the social network evidence and history of fighting/drug use etc.  when zimm wakes up and says he told me I was going to die that night and I was scared for my life, does TM get attempted murder charges? If not, why?  If so, how was zimm not justified in shooting him?

You forgot the part where Zimm has a much more documented history of criminal violence than TM.

[HeinBallz]

Does anyone else think GZ should have let Trayvon know he had a gun before the fight started? "Brandished" it, if you will, at least once Trayvon (allegedly) approached him.

Don't they teach you that at your training for concealed carry?

Pulling a gun out and "brandishing" it is illegal.  Zimmerman was the guy trying to follow the law.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/22/4359601/teen-beaten-in-kansas-city-suffers.html

Team A: Too bad he didn't have a gun.

Team B: Eh, his injuries looked pretty minor.

[Rage Against the McKee]

and this kid couldn't have made it home? GZ has cuts on the back of his head? Do you not see the contradictions in the defense of TM?

Also, do you not think it is possible to stumble some distance before complete loss of motor control? You probably believe the old westerns where the bad guy dies on the spot, right?

It was his dad's place and he had not been staying there long at all. It's pretty easy to get lost in an apartment complex like that, especially if it is dark, rainy, and you are being chased by some psycho.

I don't think it's possible that Martin stumbled some distance before loss of motor control, considering that Zimmerman says he restrained Martin after he shot him.

Do you think it's possible that Zimmerman was able to actually reach his gun while being ground and pounded? I don't. I think it's much more plausible that Martin decided Zimmerman had had enough and was getting up when he was shot.

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/22/4359601/teen-beaten-in-kansas-city-suffers.html

Team A: Too bad he didn't have a gun.

Team B: Eh, his injuries looked pretty minor.

So you mean it's possible for 3 kids to get in a fight with no deaths? Who would have thought?

[michigancat]

Does anyone else think GZ should have let Trayvon know he had a gun before the fight started? "Brandished" it, if you will, at least once Trayvon (allegedly) approached him.

Don't they teach you that at your training for concealed carry?

Pulling a gun out and "brandishing" it is illegal.  Zimmerman was the guy trying to follow the law.

Well then he just have told TM he had a gun. Or at least pulled it before TM got close enough to beat the crap out of him. Concealed Carry 101.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Who has an issue with individuals having the legal authority to defend themselves?

Everyone that thinks Zimmerman should be in jail. 

Last I checked, following someone because you're part of a neighborhood watch is not illegal.  Following someone because they're black, although a dick move, is not illegal. Approaching someone to ask what they're doing, regardless of what police dispatch suggest you do, is not illegal.

On the other hand, TM punching Zimmerman in the face in response was illegal. Taking someone to the ground and MMA style face smashing them is illegal.   Telling someone they're going to die as they slam their head into a curb is illegal.

Zimmerman used excessive force to defend himself in a situation that was completely of his own creation, though.

This sentence sums up the divide between the two "sides" in this debate.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/22/4359601/teen-beaten-in-kansas-city-suffers.html

Team A: Too bad he didn't have a gun.

Team B: Eh, his injuries looked pretty minor.

So you mean it's possible for 3 kids to get in a fight with no deaths? Who would have thought?

"Critical head injuries" - but on the bright side, no deaths!!! Nuts, if the EU posted on this board, it would be you. Congrats brother.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The underrated part is where Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman non-violently and asked him why he was being followed.  Zimmerman lied and said he wasn't following him, wasting an opportunity to resolve the issue.

Someone follows you, you ask why and they said they were not, then get out of the car and chased you.  You tried for a straight answer and were clearly lied to your face and have a stranger pursuing you.  Do you not feel threatened by this?  Are you supposed to sit there and ask him again after he clearly lied to you the first time?  This guy is stalking you and lying to your face, I'm not going to assume that we can reasonably hash that out.

IIRC, when Zimm turned around to go back to his truck to wait for the police, Trayvon was behind him and asked GZ "what's your problem" and GZ responded "I don't have a problem"  Boom, sucker punch. Not my story, GZ's story. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/07/22/4359601/teen-beaten-in-kansas-city-suffers.html

Team A: Too bad he didn't have a gun.

Team B: Eh, his injuries looked pretty minor.

So you mean it's possible for 3 kids to get in a fight with no deaths? Who would have thought?

"Critical head injuries" - but on the bright side, no deaths!!! Nuts, if the EU posted on this board, it would be you. Congrats brother.

Yes, it would have been much better if the kid would have just blasted those other 2 kids away.

[Rage Against the McKee]

The underrated part is where Trayvon Martin confronted Zimmerman non-violently and asked him why he was being followed.  Zimmerman lied and said he wasn't following him, wasting an opportunity to resolve the issue.

Someone follows you, you ask why and they said they were not, then get out of the car and chased you.  You tried for a straight answer and were clearly lied to your face and have a stranger pursuing you.  Do you not feel threatened by this?  Are you supposed to sit there and ask him again after he clearly lied to you the first time?  This guy is stalking you and lying to your face, I'm not going to assume that we can reasonably hash that out.

IIRC, when Zimm turned around to go back to his truck to wait for the police, Trayvon was behind him and asked GZ "what's your problem" and GZ responded "I don't have a problem"  Boom, sucker punch. Not my story, GZ's story.

I love how Zimmerman actually chased this kid across an apartment complex because he thought he was a dangerous thug that had been robbing places, yet he allowed himself to get sucker punched after having a brief conversation with him.

[Cire]

Pretty clear zim wasn't looking for a fight