immigration

[sys]

anyone have thoughts?  i find myself annoyed by both the left and the right (which i guess is fairly normal for us socially liberal libertarians), especially so because a lot people seem to have little idea of what they're talking about.

i find the people that say things like "illegals should wait in line like everyone else" particularly annoying.  there is no line for 99% of people that arrive in the us illegally.  there is no legal avenue for people in their demographic to immigrate to the us.  so shut the eff up with that contrived crap.

[Shacks]

Seal the American/Mexican border with a fence along the entire border.  Yeah, it's gonna be expensive, but in the long run it's more affordable than what we have now.  Anyone who complains that it's unfair for Mexicans or racist or whatever can STFU as far as I'm concerned.  Mexico has a wall on its southern border to keep out the Guatemalans so it's a little hypocritical to bitch about the US putting up a wall on its southern border.

I wouldn't be against providing illegal immigrants who are already in the US a path to citizenship as long as there are certain conditions.  Any trouble with the law is an immediate deportation, the head of the household can't be unemployed for more than a month, no welfare or disability benefits or voting rights until they are legal citizens, all their kids under 18 must be attending school, must pass an English test to gain citizenship.  The whole process should take five years or so.  For driver's licenses, I wouldn't be opposed to them taking a driving test to get one as long as it is clearly marked that they are transitioning to citizenship and ineligible to vote.

Once a wall is built, no more grandfathering in illegals.  Immediate deportation and no possibility of future citizenship for any illegals caught in America.  Come in the right way or don't come at all.

[steve dave]

Only dealt with it at the airport. They have a fruit sniffing dog at DIA. I guess that's customs.

[p1k3]

I'm not sure either party wants to do anything serious about it.

[Kat Kid]

Let in anyone with an advanced degree and/or willing to fork over $200K for a permanent visa. 

Raise and enforce the min wage enough to remove the incentive of cheap labor for most food and service work.

 Keep exemptions for ag and landscape.

  For construction let independent contractors compete on price.  But maybe figure out a way to cause an annoying penalty to those who are really depressing wages.

For kids let the kids with college degrees and a sponsor or in the army earn citizenship.

[sys]

Seal the American/Mexican border with a fence along the entire border.  Yeah, it's gonna be expensive, but in the long run it's more affordable than what we have now.  Anyone who complains that it's unfair for Mexicans or racist or whatever can STFU as far as I'm concerned.  Mexico has a wall on its southern border to keep out the Guatemalans so it's a little hypocritical to bitch about the US putting up a wall on its southern border.

I wouldn't be against providing illegal immigrants who are already in the US a path to citizenship as long as there are certain conditions.  Any trouble with the law is an immediate deportation, the head of the household can't be unemployed for more than a month, no welfare or disability benefits or voting rights until they are legal citizens, all their kids under 18 must be attending school, must pass an English test to gain citizenship.  The whole process should take five years or so.  For driver's licenses, I wouldn't be opposed to them taking a driving test to get one as long as it is clearly marked that they are transitioning to citizenship and ineligible to vote.

Once a wall is built, no more grandfathering in illegals.  Immediate deportation and no possibility of future citizenship for any illegals caught in America.  Come in the right way or don't come at all.

great example, thanks.

[Shacks]

Seal the American/Mexican border with a fence along the entire border.  Yeah, it's gonna be expensive, but in the long run it's more affordable than what we have now.  Anyone who complains that it's unfair for Mexicans or racist or whatever can STFU as far as I'm concerned.  Mexico has a wall on its southern border to keep out the Guatemalans so it's a little hypocritical to bitch about the US putting up a wall on its southern border.

I wouldn't be against providing illegal immigrants who are already in the US a path to citizenship as long as there are certain conditions.  Any trouble with the law is an immediate deportation, the head of the household can't be unemployed for more than a month, no welfare or disability benefits or voting rights until they are legal citizens, all their kids under 18 must be attending school, must pass an English test to gain citizenship.  The whole process should take five years or so.  For driver's licenses, I wouldn't be opposed to them taking a driving test to get one as long as it is clearly marked that they are transitioning to citizenship and ineligible to vote.

Once a wall is built, no more grandfathering in illegals.  Immediate deportation and no possibility of future citizenship for any illegals caught in America.  Come in the right way or don't come at all.

great example, thanks.

Example of what you said at the end of your first post?  If so, oh well that there isn't a legal or readily accessible path to American citizenship for some demographics.  How many impoverished 2nd and 3rd world refugees does the US really need?  At some point the needs of the country should take priority of the needs of the immigrants.

[sys]

example of someone opining forcefully without knowing what the eff they're talking about.

[Shacks]

I know that it's nigh-impossible for a lot of people to legally become US citizens because it's a lengthy and expensive process.  I just have more sympathy for my country than for those who want to move from slums of developing countries to America.  If the US accepts every impoverished 2nd and 3rd worlder with open arms, it only makes this country shittier.

[steve dave]

The DIA dog was a beagle. I thought it was looking for drugs or bombs or whatever but it found an apple in a ladies backpack. she had to throw it away. I got pretty excited.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't understand the requirement of an advanced degree. It seems to me that we have a much greater demand for good unskilled labor than we do for people with advanced degrees. I say let any non-criminal who wants to be a citizen sign up and immigrate legally after a fairly short process.

[wetwillie]

I know that it's nigh-impossible for a lot of people to legally become US citizens because it's a lengthy and expensive process.  I just have more sympathy for my country than for those who want to move from slums of developing countries to America.  If the US accepts every impoverished 2nd and 3rd worlder with open arms, it only makes this country shittier.

Its likely your ancestors were poor and uneducated and from countries considered second rate when they came here

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Its a huge rough ridin' problem caused by years of wilful ignorance.  Remedies are driven by a desire to gain more votes, rather then fairness or fiscal responsibility. Our country is mumped.

[puniraptor]

Open borders house party free beer 24/7

[michigancat]

People should be able to live wherever they want.

[ChiComCat]

People should be able to live wherever they want.

All men are created equal*



*if they were created in the US**


**also, no gays

[chum1]

 

[Rage Against the McKee]

Its a huge rough ridin' problem caused by years of wilful ignorance.  Remedies are driven by a desire to gain more votes, rather then fairness or fiscal responsibility. Our country is mumped.

What problems are caused by illegal immigration and to what extent?

[Shacks]

I know that it's nigh-impossible for a lot of people to legally become US citizens because it's a lengthy and expensive process.  I just have more sympathy for my country than for those who want to move from slums of developing countries to America.  If the US accepts every impoverished 2nd and 3rd worlder with open arms, it only makes this country shittier.

Its likely your ancestors were poor and uneducated and from countries considered second rate when they came here

Some of my ancestors lived in what is now California before it was part of the US.  I'm half-Mexican.  This isn't about race or "keeping them dirty spics out" or anything like that.  I've spent a lot of time around illegal immigrants in California.  Worked alongside them as a landscaper and helped my grandmother with some apartments she rents out to illegals.  I'm in favor of grandfathering in those who are already in this country.  By and large they're law-abiding, honest, hardworking people.  However, many of them don't assimilate and they reproduce like rabbits, putting more strain on overburdened health and education systems.  If we had a booming economy, affordable education and reasonable healthcare costs, I'd be in favor of leniency regarding illegal immigration.  But none of those things are true, so until conditions improve we should have strict rules when it comes to illegal immigration.  I'd rather have a better country for those who already live here than allow anyone who wants to live here to become a citizen.

[Kat Kid]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

[star seed 7]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

Why a 200k fee?

[michigancat]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

200k or an advanced degree is pretty steep.

[Kat Kid]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

200k or an advanced degree is pretty steep.

$200K is nothing.  People pay coyotes tens of thousands to come here illegally.  If someone wants to pay $200K to move here, we should take their money and welcome them.  If someone has a PhD or advanced degree in almost anything they are adding value to us. 

Those are no brainers.  I think the worst part of immigration is the fact that it depresses wages for unskilled labor.  I would like to change the demographics a bit for immigrants and I think you can do that pretty humanely and in a way that benefits almost everyone.

[michigancat]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

200k or an advanced degree is pretty steep.

$200K is nothing.  People pay coyotes tens of thousands to come here illegally.  If someone wants to pay $200K to move here, we should take their money and welcome them.  If someone has a PhD or advanced degree in almost anything they are adding value to us. 

Those are no brainers.  I think the worst part of immigration is the fact that it depresses wages for unskilled labor.  I would like to change the demographics a bit for immigrants and I think you can do that pretty humanely and in a way that benefits almost everyone.

I still think your dollar figure is too high. And I think any drastic increases in the minimum wage will encourage MORE working-class illegal immigration, not less.

[sys]

did anyone see my post?  sys?

i'll get to it later tonight, or tomorrow am at the latest.  shack's subsequent posts as well.