Sorry Michael Hastings . . .

[steve dave]

republicans are correct that the democrats are hypocritical. when a republican is in office the dems lose their crap over illegal detentions/waterboarding/drones/waging wars of aggression/wars fought for oil/gay rights/etc. by contrast, if a democrat is in office the dems all sit on their hands when civil liberties are threatened.

i say that so that i can make a bigger point. republicans(conservatives) care relatively little about civil liberties, including the freedom of the press and the fourth amendment stuff brought up by the NSA. when a conservative is in office they preach fear of terrorism. when a "liberal" is in office they preach dem hypocrisy. if this isn't true, then why are conservatives so ineffective at raising hell about civil liberties infractions? all they can muster is attempts to mock liberals for not achieving the ideals they espouse.

great post

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

republicans are correct that the democrats are hypocritical. when a republican is in office the dems lose their crap over illegal detentions/waterboarding/drones/waging wars of aggression/wars fought for oil/gay rights/etc. by contrast, if a democrat is in office the dems all sit on their hands when civil liberties are threatened.

i say that so that i can make a bigger point. republicans(conservatives) care relatively little about civil liberties, including the freedom of the press and the fourth amendment stuff brought up by the NSA. when a conservative is in office they preach fear of terrorism. when a "liberal" is in office they preach dem hypocrisy. if this isn't true, then why are conservatives so ineffective at raising hell about civil liberties infractions? all they can muster is attempts to mock liberals for not achieving the ideals they espouse.

Pit Alert! The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

[sys]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

[felix rex]

I like you too, sys.

[Kat Kid]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

I agree, but I think the critique of thinking conservatives goes more like this: No one doubts the credentials of people taking the Foreign Service Exam/European diplomats etc., what is in doubt is their attachment to reality and their efficacy at creating top-down solutions and one-size-fits-all fixes. 

Obviously at the macro level both "local" policies and "national/federal" policies are romanticized by these opposing political factions and thus most of the speech about them is really partisan tactical talking points that is nearly meaningless at a ideological level and really mostly about enforcing "in-group/out-group" tribalism.   

[steve dave]

whoa, this is some good high level goEMAW political discussion 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

There's nothing more MSNBC than a bunch of pseudo intellectual libtards, wholove nothing more than hearing themselves talk, trying to get into the psyche of a conservative.

 

[steve dave]

kick their asses FSD!

[michigancat]

There's nothing more MSNBC than a bunch of pseudo intellectual libtards, wholove nothing more than hearing themselves talk, trying to get into the psyche of a conservative.

 

this wasn't the most fsd post, but it was close.

[CNS]

Thought it was a rather standard FSD post. 

[michigancat]

Thought it was a rather standard FSD post.

 The post had the general effect he was looking for, but I'm sure he wishes he could do better.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

[bubbles4ksu]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

this post doesn't sound like typical sys, it doesn't seem very smart.

[steve dave]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

rogue employees at the local level don't generally effect (affect?) anything outside of the local level either

[sys]

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

that's a good point.  it's maybe more about power than competence (although, i think generally state and local government have more impact on one's life, excluding taxation).  in a similar vein, i was also thinking that it might be because people feel they can move if they don't like local or state policies and practices, but don't feel similarly capable of escaping interactions with the federal government.

[felix rex]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

I agree, but I think the critique of thinking conservatives goes more like this: No one doubts the credentials of people taking the Foreign Service Exam/European diplomats etc., what is in doubt is their attachment to reality and their efficacy at creating top-down solutions and one-size-fits-all fixes. 

Obviously at the macro level both "local" policies and "national/federal" policies are romanticized by these opposing political factions and thus most of the speech about them is really partisan tactical talking points that is nearly meaningless at a ideological level and really mostly about enforcing "in-group/out-group" tribalism.   

According to my European diplomat friend, another big problem is that different parts of the federal government have different, sometimes conflicting, objectives. So you have a situation where the faces of the federal government are saying one thing as part of a messaging effort pushed by one part, where employees in a different building are convinced, incentivized and/or pressured to pursue a different, potentially conflicting objective. Often, both objectives are defensible and reasonable, but it can create an aura of dissimulation that easily seeps into one's actual perspective. In part, it's a result of the compartmentalization of information and duties heavily enacted in the last decade (in that European guy's view), leading to a fragmented and stovepiped "centralized" government where the left hand is knowingly at odds with what the right hand is doing.

[kim carnes]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

no

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

no

yes

[bubbles4ksu]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

no

yes

wtf is a rogue employee?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

The federal government no longer cares about your civil liberties!

i think it's interesting that the normal brand of right-leaning person typically qualifies an expression of fear/dislike of government with federal.  maybe it's partly ideological (but really, i think, much more empirical), but in my interactions with government, i've almost invariably found the federal level to be more rational, efficient and restrained than state and local levels.  even more so, i've found federal employees to be generally intelligent, competent, pleasant and somewhat idealistic.  excluding public university employees, i would not say the same of state and local employees as groups.

Problems with rogue employees at the local level can generally be fixed, not so much at the federal level. Lots of proof recently.

no

yes

wtf is a rogue employee?

http://www.merriam-webster.com

[bubbles4ksu]

how do you fix rogue employees at the state level and why is it harder to do so at the federal level?

[p1k3]

how do you fix rogue employees at the state level and why is it harder to do so at the federal level?

because the Libtards give everyone in the Federal Government a free pass. Doesn't matter who you spied on or who you killed. Hope, Change, Forward

[chum1]

I'd love to see some examples of rogue employees in order to better understand this national crisis we have on our hands. 

[chunkles]

Wait, do you think I'm a liberal? Well how about that. 

  read through this thread just waiting for this to happen... again.
you need a stat sheet of accusations, fr.  I'm guessing right now the ratio is about 3:1 [libtard obamabot : #teamteabaggery], which will flip once another party wins the white house.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Well this thread has taken an odd turn, speculating upon a false premise.

Even though most rudimentary understanding of federalism would lead even the most obtuse observer to the correct conslusion as to the cynisism towards federal government; nevermind the obvious intent of the Constitution to limit its power.  Perhaps if the Federal govt didn't confiscate approx 1/3 of a States income to pursue endeavors that may have little to no benefit to the state itself, without proper recourse, people wouldn't be so critical :notsure:

Anyways, a more appropriate question is why the left has such a naive and altruistic view of the federal government, to the point of willing to ignore it overstepping its jurisdictional boundaries.  If they want to reconstitute the government to award the Fed police powers why don't they try and do it?  Why do they prefer to instead pass legislation they hope either goes unchallenged or is too politically unpopular to challenge?