Author Topic: Stars Absolutely Matter  (Read 9955 times)

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Offline steve dave

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2013, 11:04:04 AM »
I also love mocking the outlier argument. Constantly bringing up Jordy Nelson v. some 5 star that didn't pan out. Oh yeah? Out of 95% of all college football scholarship players you were able to locate a couple that worked out? Congrats dipshit.

Offline MadCat

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2013, 11:06:47 AM »
We should just make it our new philosophy to hoard 4/5 star talent.  That will make it ultimately easier on the coaches, plus it would be fun to watch our oline and dline get drafted in the first round every year.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2013, 11:07:22 AM »
I'd be fuckin' ecstatic if a class average is above 3.0 stars.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2013, 11:07:54 AM »
I'd be fuckin' ecstatic if a class average is above 3.0 stars.

yes, that would be huge for us

Offline Pett

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2013, 11:12:02 AM »
DID MARCUS WATTS HAVE STARS?!

Nope. No hips either

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2013, 11:12:53 AM »
I also love mocking the outlier argument. Constantly bringing up Jordy Nelson v. some 5 star that didn't pan out. Oh yeah? Out of 95% of all college football scholarship players you were able to locate a couple that worked out? Congrats dipshit.

The real outlier is the Kansas State football program under LHC Bill Snyder, imo. It seems like you see a whole lot more low-ranked studs here than you typically find elsewhere.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2013, 11:16:50 AM »
sd this is a fantastic point and great stat. i completely agree with you... stars matter. plenty of outliers, just like everything in life, but the guys who rate hs talent know what theyre doing for the most part.
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2013, 11:27:28 AM »
I think the main things to consider here is:

1. Snyder does a fantastic job with DIRs, this cannot be argued
     a) would like to see what he did with consistent classes full of higher ranked kids
2. Snyder won't be here forever, history shows he's one of the very few coaches out of hundreds and hundreds that can win at a very high level without recruiting obvious studs.
     a) Someone will have to take over for Snyder and most likely won't be a wizard.

None of this is a revelation to anyone that isn't a tuck, but it's shocking how people just overlook this and say we're fine with tons of DIRs.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2013, 11:29:49 AM »
I don't think Snyder just takes pieces of crap and molds them into studs. I just think he's better at evaluating talent than the recruiting services and he uses that skill to somewhat offset his deficiencies in recruiting.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2013, 11:34:44 AM »
I think coaching 3*s and a bunch of DITR is way different than coaching a bunch of 4*s and 5*s. It'd be interesting to throw Snyder in as HC at Alabama and see how he did it.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2013, 11:35:27 AM »
I don't think Snyder just takes pieces of crap and molds them into studs. I just think he's better at evaluating talent than the recruiting services and he uses that skill to somewhat offset his deficiencies in recruiting.
Clearly. It's not like Jordy Nelson or Sproles were some unathletic pieces of crap, but at the same time, I don't think he could recruit his classes and give them to Coach X and Coach X would field a top level team in 4 years either.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline CNS

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2013, 11:40:10 AM »
The stars outlier argument is just like the NFL retards saying you should try for a qb in late rounds "because Tom Brady, that's why".




Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2013, 11:40:44 AM »
I'm just not sure, KITNfury. Ron Prince inherited a LHC Bill Snyder team and took them to a bowl game after Snyder failed to do that 2 years in a row, and I really don't think Bill could take over KU's team, which is made up of players similarly rated by recruiting services as K-State, and win more than 3-4 games. I just think Bill knows his limitations in convincing studs to come play for him over other coaches and instead focuses on kids that aren't heavily recruited, hoping he can locate some studs, and he usually does.

Offline CNS

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2013, 11:43:34 AM »
I think Bill is good at long term development in players.  That said, his best attribute is being able to quickly understand other coaches plans and their teams weaknesses and quickly find ways to work around that or expose that plan's weakness with the tools he has on hand. 

The latter has much more to do with Bill's success than his ability to develop nobody recruits into somebody recruits.

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2013, 11:44:39 AM »
welp, sorry sd, this thread used to be good
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2013, 11:55:11 AM »
welp, sorry sd, this thread used to be good
quite being an apologetic loser pussy
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2013, 11:59:21 AM »
welp, sorry sd, this thread used to be good
quite being an apologetic loser pussy
Yeah, I mean no crap stars matter. Tell us something else that all of us already know.

Offline Mixed-Nutz

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2013, 12:00:18 PM »
I'm just not sure, KITNfury. Ron Prince inherited a LHC LHC Bill Snyder team and took them to a bowl game after Snyder failed to do that 2 years in a row, and I really don't think Bill could take over KU's team, which is made up of players similarly rated by recruiting services as K-State, and win more than 3-4 games. I just think Bill knows his limitations in convincing studs to come play for him over other coaches and instead focuses on kids that aren't heavily recruited, hoping he can locate some studs, and he usually does.
Bill recruits a lot of players that have chance to be really good. The star system does a bad job of making note of this. This is stupid because mostly every player comes to college football not college football ready. Look at K-state 2013 class it isn't rated very high but their are a lot of players in it that have a chance to be really good. A lot people think that K-state has one of the worse class in the 2013 Big 12 because of how the recruits are rated. But you should all know that this isn't true.   

Offline The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2013, 12:02:13 PM »
welp, sorry sd, this thread used to be good
quite being an apologetic loser pussy
Yeah, I mean no crap stars matter. Tell us something else that all of us already know.

ok, ill tell you something else everyone already knows...

look at the last like 15 posts about how there are outliers on star ratings and how snyder makes players better but probably wouldnt be super awesome at alabama. just look.  :jerk:
I think what my friend Mitch is trying to say is that true love is blind.

Offline CNS

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #44 on: April 26, 2013, 12:08:34 PM »
welp, sorry sd, this thread used to be good
quite being an apologetic loser pussy
Yeah, I mean no crap stars matter. Tell us something else that all of us already know.

ok, ill tell you something else everyone already knows...

look at the last like 15 posts about how there are outliers on star ratings and how snyder makes players better but probably wouldnt be super awesome at alabama. just look.  :jerk:

You know this board is a KSU board, right?

Offline Panjandrum

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #45 on: April 26, 2013, 12:13:26 PM »
I think coaching 3*s and a bunch of DITR is way different than coaching a bunch of 4*s and 5*s. It'd be interesting to throw Snyder in as HC at Alabama and see how he did it.

I don't like using the term DITR.  They found lightly recruited players to perform a specific thing they wanted them to do.

John Hubert was lightly recruited, but he runs hard, doesn't turn the ball over, is a good blocker, and he gets a good YPC because he's a grinder back that helps benefit our clock draining strategy.  The coaches saw that, recruited him, and he's a three year starter.

Lucas was a 2-star kid out of Louisiana, but he was 6'8" with an excellent frame and tremendous lower body strength.  With three years of college S&C, you can get a kid with the potential to be an all-conference tackle (which he was) and a relatively high draft pick (which he will be).

The NFL is going to draft the physical freaks because there's always a thought at the next level that the coaches at the previous level didn't coach them right and that "we can do better" and help them meet their potential.

And that's why, if I were a coach at KSU, my strategy would be to find burners that were a little too light (Thompson, Lockett) or large basketball players that could put on 50-60 pounds over the course of 3-4 years so they could be solid linemen after that (Lucas) or highly thought of players that get injured in HS and are considered damaged goods (Leverett).  Also, hit the transfer market HARD.

Offline PowercatPat

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2013, 01:51:14 PM »
I also love mocking the outlier argument. Constantly bringing up Jordy Nelson v. some 5 star that didn't pan out. Oh yeah? Out of 95% of all college football scholarship players you were able to locate a couple that worked out? Congrats dipshit.

This.

I agree SD, stars matter a lot.

Offline bubbles4ksu

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #47 on: April 26, 2013, 02:04:12 PM »
i have no numbers to back it up, but i would guess a huge majority of the guys who leave college early are 4/5 stars.

Offline steve dave

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2013, 02:14:37 PM »
I would like to know the % of 4/5 stars that ultimately get drafted and the % of 3/2/0 starts that ultimately get drafted.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Stars Absolutely Matter
« Reply #49 on: April 26, 2013, 02:25:06 PM »
I would like to know the % of 4/5 stars that ultimately get drafted and the % of 3/2/0 starts that ultimately get drafted.

I would probably be more interested in a breakdown of 4* players vs 5* players.