Author Topic: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .  (Read 3079 times)

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Offline sonofdaxjones

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All the good perpetual war talking points, like-Help Jordanian military prepare for possible outcomes of Syrian conflict (where the U.S. is supporting either directly or via proxy elements of Al Queda, and you thought there was a war on terror). 

Oh, an laying the groundwork for potential involvement of thousands of more U.S. troops.

Perpetual War is alive and quite well during the 2nd term of the Barry W. Obama administration.



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Its the "right" war
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Offline 8manpick

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Sucks
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Offline michigancat

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I wish we would not fight wars

Offline sys

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I wish we would not fight wars

when people tire of them, we won't.
"a garden city man wondered in april if the theologians had not made a mistake in locating the garden of eden in asia rather than in the arkansas river valley."

Offline Shacks

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I wish we would not fight wars

when people tire of them, we won't.

Nope, they will just bring back the draft when enough Americans decide they no longer want to die for the benefit of big corporations and Israel

Offline ednksu

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The outright distortion of the truth is a central hallmark to a dax post.
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Offline felix rex

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200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2013, 06:55:58 AM »
I wish we would not fight wars

when people tire of them, we won't.

Nope, they will just bring back the draft when enough Americans decide they no longer want to die for the benefit of big corporations and Israel

That is a hell of a recruiting poster
"How will I recruit to Manhattan? Well, distance. And the proud state of basketball. It start there, and then daily flights to Dallas, because I'm really good at going out. Like top five good. Ask my wife. She wants me to be happy."

Offline sonofdaxjones

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The outright distortion of the truth is a central hallmark to a dax post.

Oh, do tell.


Offline ednksu

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2013, 09:33:47 AM »
The outright distortion of the truth is a central hallmark to a dax post.

Oh, do tell.
Outright support of AQ in Syria?  Even by proxy that is a stretch.  The US has moved against several groups in the conflict for their ties to AQ.

Secondly there have been troops in this region for a long time.  That doesn't mean there is a perpetual war going on.   I also love how this was never an issue with W and now the radical elements in the US have realized what a hypocrite this makes them so they attempt to revise that to include W.s tenure.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2013, 12:41:44 PM »
Why even bring W into the discussion at this juncture, he hasn't been president for 5 years now.

Arms shipments from other Middle Eastern states like Saudia Arabia to the "freedom fighers" . . . proxy.

Using Turkish (NATO) bases for a staging area with highly suspect individuals and entities moving in and out.

Foreign media reporting regularly that elements from Libyan usual suspects with AQ ties are in Syria, those parties need a proxy and/or direct NATO/US means to arrive in country.

Saying there's U.S. military present in the region is the Capt. Obvious point of the day.   That has nothing to do with 1st Armor staff going to Jordan.

Offline p1k3

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2013, 10:17:58 PM »

Secondly there have been troops in this region for a long time.  That doesn't mean there is a perpetual war going on

 :dubious:



perpetuated by Barry O himself

Offline ednksu

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2013, 04:03:33 AM »
Why even bring W into the discussion at this juncture, he hasn't been president for 5 years now.

Arms shipments from other Middle Eastern states like Saudia Arabia to the "freedom fighers" . . . proxy.

Using Turkish (NATO) bases for a staging area with highly suspect individuals and entities moving in and out.

Foreign media reporting regularly that elements from Libyan usual suspects with AQ ties are in Syria, those parties need a proxy and/or direct NATO/US means to arrive in country.

Saying there's U.S. military present in the region is the Capt. Obvious point of the day.   That has nothing to do with 1st Armor staff going to Jordan.

The point about W wasn't an endorsement or critique of his policies but rather his supporters, conservatives and neo libertarian posers, who now have an issue with US policy which has continued pretty much unabated since the 60's. 

Secondly its just stupid to say that our times to SA are the means by which the FSA and affiliated groups are getting arms.  I mean just really dumb.  If there is one thing that is true in the middle east its that the US does a horrible job of picking allies.  The fact is that the royal family has many belligerent arms who can and do work against the US.  They have more than enough money and ambition to work with AQ in Syria.  The US would have much easier methods of working arms into the region, especially since the majority of flow of all things considered is through Turkey. 

Infact this is just more evidence of a Western-centric mindset which precludes the idea that the forces in the region can't conduct these kinds of operations without the support of various western agencies.  Its absurd and had many offensive undertones.  Guess what people in the Middle East are more than capable of killing each other without western assistance.  Just because Turkey is in NATO doesn't mean this operation is being run by other members.  The idea that people from Libya need a NATO ally to move is...just....dumb....Not only that many of the Jihadists have moved from Libya southeast to Mali, not west.  But more to the point, there is a free flow of arms and fighters all over the North African region into the middle east.  In no way shape or form is it required to have western support to transit the area, once again the western-centric mindset shows through.
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2013, 09:39:31 AM »
What a load of tripe.

This is a discussion about the U.S. and NATO fueling the Civil War in Syria, it's not a statement as to whether indigenous populations are capable of rising up on their own accord or not. 

None of what you posted makes any sense at all. 

Obama has signed off on executive orders supporting the "Freedom Fighters", only a simpleton would believe the U.S. isn't engaged in some for or fashion in arming them.   Only a complete dullard would actually believe that arms provided with the guiding hand of the U.S. aren't making their way into the hands of AQ or AQ like elements.   Again, the foreign media was documenting months ago that the "usual suspects" from other "campaigns" had shown up in Syria, and those other campaigns were rife with AQ or AQ like elements. 

Now, Hagel and the administration are rolling out the tried and true, "we think Syria used Chemical Weapons" card.   I've seen this movie before.


Offline ednksu

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2013, 02:33:55 PM »
See you ignore half my post and then reinforce its conclusions with your second point.  NATO doesn't have to fuel this, its organic on its own strength.  Once again western-centric mindset that someone in Europe or the US has to be an actor in every one of these actions. 

While I do believe we are no, probably, providing more material support, you can be damn sure we are providing it to the moderate to secular interests.  No way in hell are we providing it to AQ backed groups, especially since the US has started to blacklist particular 'brigades'.  Now I don't see anyone doing what your demigod did in the 80s and committing treason to circumvent that. 

The use of chemical agents has been an ongoing threat.  After all the vast majority of intel suggests that Iraq moved their weapons to Syria at some point in time.  Which we admittedly helped to foster in Iraq.  So no you haven't seen this movie before, because people haven't been using sarin nerve gas on their own populations willingly.  The facts are the U.S. is being so non-committal on the 'red line' issue that it is frustrating many.  Since the U.S. has declared they don't know how much, when exactly, and under what circumstances the gas was actually used, Obama is doing everything to push back the talk of the red line being talked.  Your side would either argue he is being a coward and employ engendered language to berate him into action, or not surprisingly, use this tactic and try to bluff your inner warhawk out of committing another batch of US lives to a foreign war. 


If sarin was used by government forces or militias I think its more than time for a limited role in U.S. military operations, possibly like Libya.  There is a responsibility for the U.S. in being a world leader, and for the entire civilized world to prevent the illegitimate use of WMDs. 
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Quote from: Kim Carnes
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Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2013, 10:00:16 AM »
It's about U.S. hegemony, thwarting (yet again) Russian sphere's of influence, and chopping the legs off another Iranian ally. 

At this juncture we're headed for a complete breakdown of everything in Syria and it will have far reaching regional implications and probably end up killing 1000's more people than the Assad regime could ever dream of doing during more stable times.

But then again, the current president picks and chooses which thugs he wants to support and arm and which one's he wants to overthrow, just like the president's before him.    The sad thing is, because this administration has choosen sides, they'll likely have to intervene at some point, otherwise they'll like be years of civil war and ethnic cleansing.   However, given how succesful the Balkans model was for NATO and U.S. interests, that me be exactly what they want.


Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 10:17:44 AM »
With help from the C.I.A., Arab governments and Turkey have sharply increased their military aid to Syria’s opposition fighters in recent months, expanding a secret airlift of arms and equipment for the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad, according to air traffic data, interviews with officials in several countries and the accounts of rebel commanders. (New York Times 3/24/13)

Nowhere in rebel-controlled Syria is there a secular fighting force to speak of.  Across Syria, rebel-held areas are dotted with Islamic courts staffed by lawyers and clerics, and by fighting brigades led by extremists. Even the Supreme Military Council, the umbrella rebel organization whose formation the West had hoped would sideline radical groups, is stocked with commanders who want to infuse Islamic law into a future Syrian government.  (New York Times 4/27/13)   Translation:  The "Freedom Fighters" are essentially radical nutjobs.

Nothing says home spun "uprising" when the usual suspects are being shipped in to assist, this is just one article of hundreds documenting this issue . . . how are they getting there edn??


http://www.albawaba.com/news/libyan-fighters-join-free-syrian-army-forces-403268

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 02:31:02 PM »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10022753/Syria-Al-Qaedas-battle-for-control-of-Assads-chemical-weapons-plant.html

From one perspective, the game plan couldn't be playing out any better . . . we, we just didn't have any other choice, we had to go in.


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Re: 200 1st Armored Division Headquarter and related staff to Jordan . . .
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2013, 09:05:34 PM »
Relatively speaking, who's a worse leader? Obama or Assad?

Tough call there.
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