Unions

[pissclams]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

[Spracne]

Unions are money mixing pots that anymore are political action committees that exist to keep a revenue stream directed towards padding the pockets of a few at the expense of everybody.  Down with unions.

[Pete]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

Ya, I guess I would a agree.

But, I kinda admire them for sticking together and pulling it off.  Kudos if they can do it.

[Spracne]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

Ya, I guess I would a agree.

But, I kinda admire them for sticking together and pulling it off.  Kudos if they can do it.

Personally, I think you should just be better than most people at doing something.  And if you can't do that, join a union.

[Pete]

Unions are money mixing pots that anymore are political action committees that exist to keep a revenue stream directed towards padding the pockets of a few at the expense of everybody.  Down with unions.

I don't think this is accurate at all.


I agree with Clams, that they inflate wages and reduce hours/requirements that would exist in free market....and that us why they exist today....cause those dudes get something out of being in the Union.

It's no grand scheme.  They want more pay for less work.  And, they pull it off...which causes others to be super jealous.

[Pete]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

Ya, I guess I would a agree.

But, I kinda admire them for sticking together and pulling it off.  Kudos if they can do it.

Personally, I think you should just be better than most people at doing something.  And if you can't do that, join a union.

Exactly.  Most laborers should join a Union.  I agree.

[Spracne]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

Ya, I guess I would a agree.

But, I kinda admire them for sticking together and pulling it off.  Kudos if they can do it.

Personally, I think you should just be better than most people at doing something.  And if you can't do that, join a union.

Exactly.  Most laborers should join a Union.  I agree.

Yes, that would be the advantageous choice.  However, I think you should either provide value or get the eff out of the way and let an immigrant do it cheaper and happier.

[Pete]

anyone think that unions artificially inflate wages instead of letting the market dictate the appropriate labor value?

Ya, I guess I would a agree.

But, I kinda admire them for sticking together and pulling it off.  Kudos if they can do it.

Personally, I think you should just be better than most people at doing something.  And if you can't do that, join a union.

Exactly.  Most laborers should join a Union.  I agree.

Yes, that would be the advantageous choice.  However, I think you should either provide value or get the eff out of the way and let an immigrant do it cheaper and happier.

Don't hate.

[Spracne]

Unions are illogical and unfair, and we should eliminate unionized wages.  Benefits? ok, as long as it's financed, but if every trade got paid higher wages, then everything you buy with your higher wages would be more expensive.  It's simple:  provide value, or just gtfo.  You don't like it? I don't care.

[schreds21]

Those who say that osha isn't needed don't know many contractors.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

yeah.   and we won't even start discussing manufacturing or heavy industry.   the stuff I've seen, even WITH the threat of OSHA....

Don't know about manufacturing or heavy industry but they are out of control in commercial construction.

 

So are you saying that without OSHA in commercial construction, workers would be forced to work in unsafe conditions or risk losing their jobs?

[sys]

They want more pay for less work.  And, they pull it off...

they should squeeze every nickle they can out of their work, but relax some on the stupid crap.

[cfbandyman]

Those who say that osha isn't needed don't know many contractors.

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Funny cause it's true.

Holy eff it is. I haven't been working long but the things the electricians I've worked with try to pull is unbelievable, and I'd say they're "better than most." My company has a contract with this company to build them some electrical equipment building (best way to describe it) and they're messing it up all sorts managerial-wise, but what's really crazy is the      things the workers do on a daily basis. How the heck someone hasn't seriously injured themselves is beyond comprehension. 

[Pete]

You don't like it? I don't care.

I'd wager that the Union guys would say the same to you.

It's America, pal.

[schreds21]

Those who say that osha isn't needed don't know many contractors.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

Funny cause it's true.

Holy eff it is. I haven't been working long but the things the electricians I've worked with try to pull is unbelievable, and I'd say they're "better than most." My company has a contract with this company to build them some electrical equipment building (best way to describe it) and they're messing it up all sorts managerial-wise, but what's really crazy is the      things the workers do on a daily basis. How the heck someone hasn't seriously injured themselves is beyond comprehension.

Are these workers being forced, against their will and with the threat of termination by their foremen/superintendents, to do these crazy things?

[p1k3]

Why do any of you give a eff if other people unionize?  What's it to you?

ever try managing them? They're a pain in the ass.

Get a different job.

Fair point, I suppose.  If it were up to me I'd fire their asses and pay them market prices. If they don't like it they can get another job.

Unions are money mixing pots that anymore are political action committees that exist to keep a revenue stream directed towards padding the pockets of a few at the expense of everybody.  Down with unions.

I don't think this is accurate at all.


I agree with Clams, that they inflate wages and reduce hours/requirements that would exist in free market....and that us why they exist today....cause those dudes get something out of being in the Union.

It's no grand scheme.  They want more pay for less work.  And, they pull it off...which causes others to be super jealous.

Have you ever seen a unions LM2 filing? The union bosses and their cronies are rolling in dough. Agree on the "good for them" point but like I said if I had it my I way that crap wouldn't happen.

[p1k3]

I remember the union cronies would show up every so often. They would talk to the employees for 15 minutes and then come back to management and say, "Uh, the guys want more coffee". That guy is listed on the LM-2 as making about 100k.

[Spracne]

You don't like it? I don't care.

I'd wager that the Union guys would say the same to you.

It's America, pal.

I'm sure they would say the exact same thing, while they are taking their slightly higher labor wages to the bank.  Good for them, but the system they are so happy to have is a remnant of a previous America - and their own history seems to get glossed over for the sake of nostalgia - and the reality is that most forms of labor are simply cheaper to outsource.  The reasons most unions still exist are purely political.  People who are pro-union are people who have (a) either been raised in an environment where people benefited somehow from unions, or (b) currently think they benefit from unions.  There was a time when "union" work comprised a more substantial percentage of Americans.  If you'd like to know what has changed, look to the rust belt - the old industrial north.  Unions have since become voting blocs; but, it's a cigar industry.  Anybody who thinks the proliferation of unions would be good for America's future is being nostalgic.

[Pete]

Like I said, I admire the union guys for maximizing their income, while not getting bent out of shape about Union leaders making bank.

If you are a Union guy, why do you care if Union leaders make money, as long as you make more by being in a Union?

[p1k3]

Like I said, I admire the union guys for maximizing their income, while not getting bent out of shape about Union leaders making bank.

If you are a Union guy, why do you care if Union leaders make money, as long as you make more by being in a Union?

Another good point, until your union drags the company into the ground so hard that it has to be saved by tax payers.

[sys]

If you are a Union guy, why do you care if Union leaders make money, as long as you make more by being in a Union?

the same way stockholders don't get bent out of shape about ceo's making millions for serving as a totemic good luck charm.  good post, pete.

[Spracne]

Like I said, I admire the union guys for maximizing their income, while not getting bent out of shape about Union leaders making bank.

If you are a Union guy, why do you care if Union leaders make money, as long as you make more by being in a Union?

This makes sense, if you have a very narrow viewpoint.  A lot of people also think about themselves as stakeholders in whatever venture they are involved in.  As such, they consider their role in the larger system and the impact that their function has in society as a whole.  Ultimately, it comes down to a conflict of ideas.  The question really is:  What do you believe?

[CNS]

Those who say that osha isn't needed don't know many contractors.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

Funny cause it's true.

Holy eff it is. I haven't been working long but the things the electricians I've worked with try to pull is unbelievable, and I'd say they're "better than most." My company has a contract with this company to build them some electrical equipment building (best way to describe it) and they're messing it up all sorts managerial-wise, but what's really crazy is the      things the workers do on a daily basis. How the heck someone hasn't seriously injured themselves is beyond comprehension.

Are these workers being forced, against their will and with the threat of termination by their foremen/superintendents, to do these crazy things?

I was by several contractors working through HS and college.

[CNS]

Why do any of you give a eff if other people unionize?  What's it to you?

ever try managing them? They're a pain in the ass.

Get a different job.

I think managing them is easy if you know how to preplan.  I mean, if you understand the union agreements, there is very rarely a question as to who is responsible for what.  As long as you understand that going into and write contracts accordingly, the management becomes more about coordination of timing than anything.

[Asteriskhead]

ever try managing them? They're a pain in the ass.

It's not that hard. Read the rough ridin' contract, rube.

I am a front line supervisor in a unionized environment. There are pro's and con's to it, as there are for almost all things. I've been on both sides of the line. Those who see unionized work environments as a pure black and white issue are rough ridin' dumb, looking at you Shivvyman.

[Mikeyis4dcats]

Those who say that osha isn't needed don't know many contractors.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

yeah.   and we won't even start discussing manufacturing or heavy industry.   the stuff I've seen, even WITH the threat of OSHA....

Don't know about manufacturing or heavy industry but they are out of control in commercial construction.

 

So are you saying that without OSHA in commercial construction, workers would be forced to work in unsafe conditions or risk losing their jobs?

yes.   There are a LOT of contractors that operate unsafe WITH OSHA.   There would be even more without that threat.