Construction in Aggieville

[star seed 7]

they are illegal because of human safety, not because of aesthetics.

and if you move into an HOA area, then you know that going into it and you abide by those rules.

jesus christ, you are an angry man.

My point, from the beginning, is that the City should treat Manhattan like a neighborhood and create rules like an HOA would.  The City should impose rules in the Aggieville Business District that provide for aesthetic requirements, just like a neighborhood would.  In fact, they already did this.  See the Campus Edge Master Plan.  This is why I was a bit surprised to see a cinder block project erected in the middle of Aggieville.   

maybe you should be complaining to the aggieville business owners to get a historic district enacted or something instead.

[Belvis Noland]

it looks fine, he's making a big deal out of nothing.

That was my assumption.

Why do you assume that a cinder block residential tower looks fine?  Have you ever seen one before?  Do you see any cinder block buildings on campus?  around Manhattan? 

Clearly rhetorical.  Ask yourself why you don't see these buildings. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

it looks fine, he's making a big deal out of nothing.

That was my assumption.

Why do you assume that a cinder block residential tower looks fine?  Have you ever seen one before?  Do you see any cinder block buildings on campus?  around Manhattan? 

Clearly rhetorical.  Ask yourself why you don't see these buildings.

I assume that because nobody in their right mind is going to spend the money on property in Aggieville only to put up some shitty cinder block shanty.

[Belvis Noland]

I thought it was a Hunan Express with a rooftop bar.

That's the front part of the parcel, a single story portion of the development.  behind it looms a 4-story residential building.   

[Belvis Noland]

maybe you should be complaining to the aggieville business owners to get a historic district enacted or something instead.

Yeah, I should be complaining to the Manhattan City Council, but this is an internet message board. 

It's like bbsing about sports on here.  I mean, really, our gripes should be directed to LHC Bill Snyder and oscar Weber, amirite?   

[Rage Against the McKee]

This webpage is amazing.

http://fancyhomedesign.net/cinder-block-homes/

[star seed 7]

I thought it was a Hunan Express with a rooftop bar.

That's the front part of the parcel, a single story portion of the development.  behind it looms a 4-story residential building.   

and you don't even notice it from moro.  the only time you even noticed the "projects" is driving down 11th, you see it for a moment.  and it's a modern look with galvanized fences, not a shantytown.  in fact, until you even mentioned it here i didn't even know it was a block building because i don't spend my time staring at apartments that are basically in an aggieville ally.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If it's still under construction, isn't it sort of likely that the building might have some kind of facade placed over the cinder blocks to make it look better?

[FuzzyWuzzy]

This webpage is amazing.

http://fancyhomedesign.net/cinder-block-homes/

oh gawd the writing

Cinder Block Homes are a bit not save and also have loads of minus than the plus side.

Cinder Block Homes are more less likely to experience a great damage if a fire occurs

In particular side, they are typically do not have any problems with termites as many wooden homes do.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

maybe you should be complaining to the aggieville business owners to get a historic district enacted or something instead.

Yeah, I should be complaining to the Manhattan City Council, but this is an internet message board. 

It's like bbsing about sports on here.  I mean, really, our gripes should be directed to LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder and oscar Weber, amirite?   

here's their contact info:  http://www.cityofmhk.com/index.aspx?NID=219
tell them i don't want to look at where poor people live either

and the aggieville business improvement district http://www.cityofmhk.com/index.aspx?NID=446 

[Belvis Noland]

If it's still under construction, isn't it sort of likely that the building might have some kind of facade placed over the cinder blocks to make it look better?

Yeah, that was sort of my question in the first post in this thread.  It was explained that this is a finished project. 

[Belvis Noland]

the building is on google maps

[Belvis Noland]

maybe you should be complaining to the aggieville business owners to get a historic district enacted or something instead.

Yeah, I should be complaining to the Manhattan City Council, but this is an internet message board. 

It's like bbsing about sports on here.  I mean, really, our gripes should be directed to LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder and oscar Weber, amirite?   

here's their contact info:  http://www.cityofmhk.com/index.aspx?NID=219
tell them i don't want to look at where poor people live either

and the aggieville business improvement district http://www.cityofmhk.com/index.aspx?NID=446

just emailed Karen Davis of the AV BID.  I'll let you guys know what she says.   

[puniraptor]

[camKSU]

A few examples of CMU used aesthetically...

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[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Haven't seen the building, but if it uglifies Manhattan then I'm on #teambelvis.

I'm an aesthetics fascist apparently.  I'd rather have aesthetic requirements be imposed in all building projects (in the places I care about).

[Rage Against the McKee]

Haven't seen the building, but if it uglifies Manhattan then I'm on #teambelvis.

I'm an aesthetics fascist apparently.  I'd rather have aesthetic requirements be imposed in all building projects (in the places I care about).

You won't ever get anything really unique with aesthetic requirements. I don't want a red brick requirement for all buildings in Aggieville, and if we end up with one cinder block monstrosity as a result, then so be it. It's not a big deal.

[Kat Kid]

Haven't seen the building, but if it uglifies Manhattan then I'm on #teambelvis.

I'm an aesthetics fascist apparently.  I'd rather have aesthetic requirements be imposed in all building projects (in the places I care about).

You won't every get anything really unique with aesthetic requirements. I don't want a red brick requirement for all buildings in Aggieville, and if we end up with one cinder block monstrosity as a result, then so be it. It's not a big deal.

Aesthetics are up for debate.  He has a different side in this debate.  I'm glad we're moving toward a point in this discussion where both sides admit that there are alternative viewpoints.  I mean Belvis is kind of forced to acknowledge the opposition, because it is four stories high and all cinder blocky, but it is good to see none the less.

[Belvis Noland]

The Aggieville - Campus Edge District Plan was adopted by the Manhattan Urban Area Planning Board by resolution following a public hearing August 2005. The City Commission adopted the plan by Ordinance No. 6498 October 2005.

Goal #3:  "Create a Distinct Identity Throughout the Built Environment:  Create a distinctive identity, and develop the Aggieville-Campus Edge Area into a unique neighborhood through the overall composition of spaces, juxtaposition of buildings and public realm and special architectural character and details."

Principle:  Spatially define the street spaces by developing buildings at the front property line. For street-facing building facades, provide human scale and visual interest through change in plane, and architectural detailing and intricacy in form, color, and materials that are sensitive to the historical character of the district."

Summary:  "Individual building façade elements shall respect the rhythm, floor heights and scale of immediately adjacent and surrounding building elements." 
• Building facade elements shall create strong patterns of light and shadow.
• Facades shall incorporate the use of several building materials with complimentary color, texture and placement with primary emphasis on masonry and/or stone materials. "

[Belvis Noland]

I just want businesses to follow the Aggieville Campus Edge parameters adopted by City ordinance. 

If cinder block is a "special architectural detail" and is "masonry and/or stone material" and is "sensitive to the historical character of the district" then I have no problem with cinder block.  However, when viewed reasonably, I think we'd all agree that cinder block is none of these things. 

Therefore, I don't think it should have been used or approved by the City.  I hope this doesn't come across as fascist. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think you could make a pretty solid case that cinder blocks fall under masonry.

[Belvis Noland]

I think you could make a pretty solid case that cinder blocks fall under masonry.

you sure could, NK.  you sure could. 

special architectural character and details?  No.   

architectural detailing and intricacy in form, color, and materials?  No. 

sensitive to the historical character of the district?  No. 

respect the immediately adjacent and surrounding building elements?  No.   

several building materials with complimentary color, texture and placement?  No. 

But, yes, you are absolutely correct that a cinder block could technically be classified as masonry. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

special architectural character and details?  No.   

How do you define "special"?

architectural detailing and intricacy in form, color, and materials?  No. 

I still haven't seen a finished product, so it's hard to say.

sensitive to the historical character of the district?  No. 

What historical character?

respect the immediately adjacent and surrounding building elements?  No.   

Are the immediately adjacent property owners filing complaints?

several building materials with complimentary color, texture and placement?  No. 

Again, the building is still under construction and we don't really know what the finished product will look like.

If the city forced this property owner to acknowledge the city's plan and sign some sort of contract when he purchased the land, then I agree that he should have to meet the city's guidelines for Aggieville aesthetics. If they did not, then I don't really agree with them telling him what he can and cannot do with his own property aesthetically.

[GoodForAnother]

the guy who is opening wabash bar and grill is my old boss from iTAC.  he makes great burgers and sandwiches.  rooftop patio is going to be tits.

[Belvis Noland]

NK, I feel like you're being intentionally Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  Correct me if I'm wrong. 

It was represented at the beginning of the thread that cinder block was the final product.  I'm operating on this assumption.

My gripe is with the City not requiring compliance with the Aggieville Master Plan prior to issuing construction permits.  If the City was silent on the issue, I agree it would be ridiculous for them to come back, after the fact, and request him to pay for something else.  It's like any other district, be it the Country Club Plaza, Westport, Mass Street, Pearl Street, etc.  They all have architectural standards and non-confirming building are not allowed.  If the City allows a non-comfirming building, then that's their problem, not the developer's.   

In summary, I don't have a problem with the developer.  I have a problem with the City letting the developer move ahead with this cinder block plan. 

But, there's no point in debating it.  We obviously don't see eye to eye.  it is what it is.