JO

[CNS]

Look, JO is a decent player.  But, under oscar's system, he just isn't doing very well in a lot of games.  Maybe oscar should change his system.  I think most fans are good with the system, though, and would prefer that JO adapt. 

Nice to see the softening stance. As far as JO adapting, he isn't a programmable robot, his skills are what they are and they aren't changing. I don't understand why people can't accept this for what it is. He is a bad fit for what the new coach wants to do, it isn't anyone's fault it is just the sitch. It's too bad for JO but I'm also happy for Gip that he is in a system that will allow him to be isolated on the blocks against players that he can take advantage of.

I wonder how many threads we have that are simply titled JO followed by some huffy post about why he sucks?

I agree about the fit and the sitch.  My complaint is that we aren't exactly dripping with bigs, so we should be finding ways to make the two we have successful.  I get the oscar component, but rome wasn't built in a day.  Use what you have and transition into what you want as you get the players you want. 

[michigancat]

[Powercat Posse]

Its just not his offense that is the issue for me.   If he was being a beast on defense, i could overlook some of the problems on O.   But his D has been way too inconsistent.  He fouls too much.  His blocks are not down that much but i dont feel he changes as many shots as he was last year either

Isu was a bad matcup for him defensivly, but everyone else in this league he shouldnt have that much difficulty

[MakeItRain]

I feel like he's changed 10x the shots he changed his previous 3 years combined. I bet both of our feelings are just reinforcing our feelings about JO instead of a reflection of what is actually happening.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

Is JO the biggest post-foul whiner we've had recently?

NO, Curtis Kelly wins that award 

Hence,

[kougar24]

I feel like he's changed 10x the shots he changed his previous 3 years combined. I bet both of our feelings are just reinforcing our feelings about JO instead of a reflection of what is actually happening.

You are occasionally disproportionately mean, but very often wise my friend.

[PIPE]

Is JO the biggest post-foul whiner we've had recently?

NO, Curtis Kelly wins that award 

Hence,

OMG!!! A Curtis Kelly emoticon?   That is freakin awesome!!!!!!!

[kso_FAN]

JO is fine, the problem is JO's stretch run last year inflated his expectations. Granted, JO probably would be doing more under Frank and clearly he's the one player on this team that had benefited the least from playing in oscar's system. However, his production the last 3 seasons is pretty consistent, and its not nearly as terrible as its been made out to be by our over-reacting fans. JO is a solid player at 15-20 MPG and he benefits in certain match-ups.

JO's conference stats for each year of his career

I think the fan reaction comes largely because he's scoring less and has become a dreadful FT shooter, otherwise he's solid in every category and is a strong rebounder and shot blocker as the numbers above and the per 100 possessions charts show. I think we all just hoped he'd be the 30 minute a game player he became last year, and in oscar's system that just wasn't happening. Plus Gip has improved a bunch and earned his half of the minutes at the 5.

[Belvis Noland]

...otherwise he's solid in every category and is a strong rebounder and shot blocker as the numbers above and the per 100 possessions charts show.

Except when he plays against the best teams in the Conference, KU, ISU, and OSU, in which case he simply dissapears. 

[catzacker]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

[pissclams]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

[kougar24]

JO is a solid player at 15-20 MPG and he benefits in certain match-ups.

He's a 6'11" senior who has played a ton throughout his career; this isn't good enough now, sorry. You can say I have unrealistic expectations if you want, but I'll disagree. I think you are settling.

[pissclams]

JO is a solid player at 15-20 MPG and he benefits in certain match-ups.

He's a 6'11" senior who has played a ton throughout his career; this isn't good enough now, sorry. You can say I have unrealistic expectations if you want, but I'll disagree. I think you are settling.

settling?  how do you "settle" on the reality of a player's abilities?  your unrealistic expectations are the problem.  what a stupid argument to make.

[catzacker]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

So Gip is better than JO in every category except blocks?

[kougar24]

JO is a solid player at 15-20 MPG and he benefits in certain match-ups.

He's a 6'11" senior who has played a ton throughout his career; this isn't good enough now, sorry. You can say I have unrealistic expectations if you want, but I'll disagree. I think you are settling.

settling?  how do you "settle" on the reality of a player's abilities?  your unrealistic expectations are the problem.  what a stupid argument to make.

Within the context of our opinions of him. My opinion is that he isn't as good as he should be based on a reasonable expectation of year-to-year improvement. I don't find that stupid.

[CNS]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

So Gip is better than JO in every category except blocks?

I think this has as much to do with how oscar wants each of them to play when in as it does with Gip's improvement. 

[Belvis Noland]

settling?  how do you "settle" on the reality of a player's abilities?  your unrealistic expectations are the problem.  what a stupid argument to make.

I think it's very realistic to expect JO to perform at a higher level against teams like TCU, Tech, WVU, UT, etc.   

[mcmwcat]

heightism is just as bad as racism.

[kso_FAN]

Again, the JO career story is simple, of all the returners he is the worst fit for oscar's system, but oscar is still trying to find ways to use him.



Again, the biggest difference for JO this year is he is playing less and scoring less. In all games shown in the chart his boarding and shot blocking is pretty consistent, but he drops of drastically in scoring and has a lot more turnovers in those games vs KU, ISU, and OSU (the best teams we've played in the Big 12). To me those go together because of his inability to catch in scoring position in those games, but I'll concede some of that is on the passer (Though I assume the passer got the TOs in those situations). Note he is a better rebounder and TOs are way down overall in Big 12 play this year.

And we all know that the minutes are down this year, and way down from the 30 MPG he was playing late last year because oscar's system is using different personnel and Gip/JO are splitting time now. Compounded his reduced minutes is that he's fouling a lot more than he did last year.

It is what it is, and I don't blame JO or oscar.

[pissclams]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

So Gip is better than JO in every category except blocks?

why are you're ignoring the fact that every player on our team seems to have no issue with

oscar’s ability to motivate/coach

[pissclams]

settling?  how do you "settle" on the reality of a player's abilities?  your unrealistic expectations are the problem.  what a stupid argument to make.

I think it's very realistic to expect JO to perform at a higher level against teams like TCU, Tech, WVU, UT, etc.   

the fact that you're arguing over what's actually happened seems ridiculous

[pissclams]

JO is a solid player at 15-20 MPG and he benefits in certain match-ups.

He's a 6'11" senior who has played a ton throughout his career; this isn't good enough now, sorry. You can say I have unrealistic expectations if you want, but I'll disagree. I think you are settling.

settling?  how do you "settle" on the reality of a player's abilities?  your unrealistic expectations are the problem.  what a stupid argument to make.

Within the context of our opinions of him. My opinion is that he isn't as good as he should be based on a reasonable expectation of year-to-year improvement. I don't find that stupid.

cool, well your opinion of him is wrong. 

[catzacker]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

So Gip is better than JO in every category except blocks?

why are you're ignoring the fact that every player on our team seems to have no issue with

oscar’s ability to motivate/coach

You don't think Frank treated him different?  Do you honestly believe every player gets motivated the same way?  jfc, clams.

[pissclams]

JO should be more than a 15-20mpg guy.  His linear growth over the last 3 seasons would indicate he should be more.  Why he’s not?  Probably a variety of reasons (his motivation, oscar’s ability to motivate/coach, ect), but primarily his skill set and how it relates to what oscar wants in his offense.  You can’t simply see a growth pattern over the last 3 years in one “system” and then regression in another “system” and not draw some correlation. 

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=25815.msg741948#msg741948

So Gip is better than JO in every category except blocks?

why are you're ignoring the fact that every player on our team seems to have no issue with

oscar’s ability to motivate/coach

You don't think Frank treated him different?  Do you honestly believe every player gets motivated the same way?  jfc, clams.

link?

[pissclams]

how can you honestly not see how he's been used differently in the two coaches' offenses?  do you watch the games or are you so #BiD that you boycott everything and just come here to vent?