Author Topic: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press  (Read 1029 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20997
    • View Profile
oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« on: December 30, 2012, 05:34:21 PM »
Look a lot better!  Added in a "trap" wrinkle that only yielded one dunk.  Also our soft press slowed down the Roo's.  _FAN/MIR thoughts???


(Want to get rid of the ad? Register now for free!)

Offline Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)

  • Racist Piece of Shit
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 18431
  • Kiss my ass and suck my dick
    • View Profile
    • I am the one and only Sugar Dick
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 06:00:13 PM »
Look a lot better!  Added in a "trap" wrinkle that only yielded one dunk.  Also our soft press slowed down the Roo's.  _FAN/MIR thoughts???

I agree, but I still don't value your thoughts
goEMAW Karmic BBS Shepherd

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 06:27:53 PM »
I like the way we are defending screens now, we'll see how it works out. We also switched a ton against UMKC, but they were small.

The 3/4 court "press" is a nice ingredient for oscar's recipe of low 60 possession games.

I wish we would pressure out of it once in a while and generate a transition lay-up or two.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20997
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 06:32:53 PM »
Look a lot better!  Added in a "trap" wrinkle that only yielded one dunk.  Also our soft press slowed down the Roo's.  _FAN/MIR thoughts???

I agree, but I still don't value your thoughts

I'll try and do better.

Online CNS

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 38112
  • I'm Athletes
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 08:03:27 PM »
I still dislike the hard hedge.  It just seems like better(conference) teams will be able to exploit it on us.  Right now, our hedges sometimes add a second screen for our guard to get around as they try to catch up with the dropping big that just screened.  In some instances it frees up the screening big and the guard that was just screened for. 

I can just seeing this absolutely destroying us against teams that have more legitimate options and who move the ball well.  Hopefully it gets more fluid or goes away.

That said, I don't coach anyone over the age of 6 this year, so I may be out on a limb here.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45943
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 08:04:22 PM »
I don't love the hard hedges because I feel like skilled teams will be able to move the ball quicker than we saw last night.  I feel like what he wants to do here is conflicted with what he wants to do with the line up.  If he is essentially going to play 4 guards I don't know why you don't switch screens.  The hedge works bigger when you have a bigger player doing it to block the passing lane on a potential roll.

As far as the zone press, I agree with _FAN.  I personally don't love it but it is effective in slowing the game down.  I like the press less with Will at the point of it, UMKC figured out, too late for them, that you could just dribble around him and get to the middle of the press.  Bad news.

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 08:06:19 PM »
I don't love the hard hedges because I feel like skilled teams will be able to move the ball quicker than we saw last night.  I feel like what he wants to do here is conflicted with what he wants to do with the line up.  If he is essentially going to play 4 guards I don't know why you don't switch screens.  The hedge works bigger when you have a bigger player doing it to block the passing lane on a potential roll.

To be fair, we switched the majority of guard-guard screens last night. Ball screens with the UMKC bigs we hedged hard though.

Offline MakeItRain

  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • ****
  • Posts: 45943
  • big roas man
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 08:08:31 PM »
I don't love the hard hedges because I feel like skilled teams will be able to move the ball quicker than we saw last night.  I feel like what he wants to do here is conflicted with what he wants to do with the line up.  If he is essentially going to play 4 guards I don't know why you don't switch screens.  The hedge works bigger when you have a bigger player doing it to block the passing lane on a potential roll.

To be fair, we switched the majority of guard-guard screens last night. Ball screens with the UMKC bigs we hedged hard though.

Good.  I don't like that either but it is much more sound than hedging on guard-to-guard screens.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20997
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 08:10:36 PM »
I was being slightly sarcastic in my assessment of the hard hedges.  They do look better than in the first game we did, then again we gave up a dunk to UMKC.  I am having a hard time imagining how many nasty throw downs a team like KU would have.  I know, I know KU is probably a 1 seed again, but there are several teams that would destroy the scheme.  I like MIR's switch idea.  But I think the trap wrinkle could be pretty good if it is better executed and it has better thought out rules about when it is applied.

Offline Kat Kid

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 20997
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 08:12:00 PM »
I don't love the hard hedges because I feel like skilled teams will be able to move the ball quicker than we saw last night.  I feel like what he wants to do here is conflicted with what he wants to do with the line up.  If he is essentially going to play 4 guards I don't know why you don't switch screens.  The hedge works bigger when you have a bigger player doing it to block the passing lane on a potential roll.

To be fair, we switched the majority of guard-guard screens last night. Ball screens with the UMKC bigs we hedged hard though.

I think the more relevant observation is that when going small (and playing a relatively small team) it would be better to just say eff it and bring more on ball pressure, no?

Offline kso_FAN

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 29506
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 08:21:57 PM »
I don't love the hard hedges because I feel like skilled teams will be able to move the ball quicker than we saw last night.  I feel like what he wants to do here is conflicted with what he wants to do with the line up.  If he is essentially going to play 4 guards I don't know why you don't switch screens.  The hedge works bigger when you have a bigger player doing it to block the passing lane on a potential roll.

To be fair, we switched the majority of guard-guard screens last night. Ball screens with the UMKC bigs we hedged hard though.

I think the more relevant observation is that when going small (and playing a relatively small team) it would be better to just say eff it and bring more on ball pressure, no?

Yeah, if we are going to play small we have to pressure the ball everywhere in the half court.

Offline Dugout DickStone

  • Global Moderator
  • Pak'r Élitaire
  • *****
  • Posts: 53962
  • BSPAC
    • View Profile
Re: oscar's Hard Hedges and our zone 3/4 press
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2012, 11:39:46 PM »
Look a lot better!  Added in a "trap" wrinkle that only yielded one dunk.  Also our soft press slowed down the Roo's.  _FAN/MIR thoughts???

This post is simply LOADED with inside jokes.  love it