Party identification and Kansas State Basketball: Loyalists and Revolutionaries

[Mr Bread]

That's really the take home.  I would never suggest Illinois is some basketball powerhouse or blueblood.  Not even close, but it never had a culture of sucking total and complete ass.  oscar did that twice when the training wheels were off.  Not just oops barely missed the NCAA tournament, middle of the pack in conference let down.  I'm talking god-rough ridin'-awful, total garbage, can't be watched it's so ugly, losing basketball.  No rough ridin' hope for the future bad.  You know it's over bad.  Even when he was "winning" on his own it was such a brutally ugly brand of offensive basketball.  Like win over a ranked opponent and still get mocked in the media.  oscar took a program that Lon and Bill had humming on all cylinders and ran it into the rough ridin' ground.  He rough ridin' sucks at being a high major head basketball coach.  Couple that with his rough ridin' dorkstore personality and constant blame deflection...I don't have the words.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I'll just go ahead and quote myself from a while ago:

Frankly, the winning "culture" at Illinois is overplayed in your comparison.  Illinois shared 5 total conference titles from 1952 to 2003, when Weber arrived.  Self was responsible for just getting two of them.  Weber won two more.  In fact, Weber won the first outright (not shared) title at Illinois since 1952.  From 1952 to 2003 Illinois also went to 4 Elite Eights and 7 Sweet Sixteens.  Self had also just gotten one of each of these.  (Over that same time, KSU went to 5 MORE Elite Eights than Illinois and 7 MORE Sweet Sixteen than Illinois.)

Weber then took Illinois to its first ever appearance in a national championship game.  Frankly, other than Self's magnificent three years at Illinois and Weber's even better first two years, Weber's last seven years are entirely in line with Illinois's culture.  (Not "below average.")  Weber won 20+ games in 5 of his last 7 years and had top four conference finishes in 4 of his last 7 years.  This is above-average stuff, even throwing out his first two years at Illinois and his time at SIU.

And Mr. Bread, I'm sorry to see you are one of those people who misuses "literally."  It metaphorically drives me crazy.

oscar Weber missed the NCAA tournament 3 times in his last 5 seasons at Illinois.

In the 21 seasons before oscar Weber arrived, Illinois missed the NCAA tournament 4 times.

yeah. illinois is a great job and a school that is ridiculously easy to have success at in basketball. it's why oscar weber was the first coach that they've ever had to fire in their over 100 year history that they've been playing basketball. he only had 2 over .500 finishes in conference in his last five years there. at illinois, that is not acceptable and it shouldn't be acceptable here either. he was fired because he was losing more conference games than he was winning. 41-49 in conference during his last five years there. that's it. no more/no less.

[kougar24]

By the way, I'm just going to throw this out there:

I don't agree that Frank was a better coach than KSU is a job. I don't see why the KSU coaching gig can't be a good one.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Whatever, I still think he'll be fine at KSU.  Although I'm not loving the play of this year's team.

[Dr Rick Daris]

Whatever, I still think he'll be fine at KSU.  Although I'm not loving the play of this year's team.

i hope you're right gosp. it would be a lot of fun to have the success that weber had while he was at s ill and the first couple of years at illinois. maybe the old coot has some tricks up those polyester sleeves after all. 

[michigancat]

By the way, I'm just going to throw this out there:

I don't agree that Frank was a better coach than KSU is a job. I don't see why the KSU coaching gig can't be a good one.

We were arguably a top 25 program (when you look at Frank's five seasons as a whole.) That's really hard no matter where you are.

[kougar24]

By the way, I'm just going to throw this out there:

I don't agree that Frank was a better coach than KSU is a job. I don't see why the KSU coaching gig can't be a good one.

We were arguably a top 25 program (when you look at Frank's five seasons as a whole.) That's really hard no matter where you are.

touche

[pissclams]

I feel like the same people who are arguing for oscar are the same people who wanted to give Wooly one more year. 

where do you hang out?  i've honestly not met any of these people.

[sys]

great posting by 'zacker in today's installment. 

[Barry McCockner]

I feel like the same people who are arguing for oscar are the same people who wanted to give Wooly one more year. 

where do you hang out?  i've honestly not met any of these people.

Wondering the same thing....stand up and identify yourselves.

[chum1]

I love this obesession with the type of situation a coach walks into.  It means nothing.

[yosh]

great posting by 'zacker in today's installment.

He was nails in the football recruiting thread today too.  All around great day for 'zacker.   

[chum1]

Good coaches win regardless of their predecessor, bad coaches lose.  Just cut the bullshit and either say, "I like oscar," or "I don't like oscar." Because that's all that's really going on here.

[michigancat]

Good coaches win regardless of their predecessor, bad coaches lose.  Just cut the bullshit and either say, "I like oscar," or "I don't like oscar." Because that's all that's really going on here.

Thanks, we saw your first post on the subject two posts ago.

[chum1]

Take a good coach like Beilein, for example.  Does it matter that Michigan sucked when he went there?  Of course not.  GMAFB.

[MakeItRain]

Take a good coach like Beilein, for example.  Does it matter that Michigan sucked when he went there?  Of course not.  GMAFB.

Yeah, it mattered.  It made that 5-13 in conference, which was a significant step back from 8-8 and the NIT each of the previous two years, the first year tolerable.

[chum1]

Take a good coach like Beilein, for example.  Does it matter that Michigan sucked when he went there?  Of course not.  GMAFB.

Yeah, it mattered.  It made that 5-13 in conference, which was a significant step back from 8-8 and the NIT each of the previous two years, the first year tolerable.

I guess I misunderstood the topic at hand:  whether or not oscar's first season will be tolerable.  I have no idea about that.  I'm curious to find out.

[Cire]

I am confident in predicting that oscar well have a slightly better home record and equal road record to wooly

[kim carnes]

By the way, I'm just going to throw this out there:

I don't agree that Frank was a better coach than KSU is a job. I don't see why the KSU coaching gig can't be a good one.

We were arguably a top 25 program (when you look at Frank's five seasons as a whole.) That's really hard no matter where you are.

Is it?  because i don't think so

[Cire]

Well, 25/320ish is a pretty small number IMO

[michigancat]

By the way, I'm just going to throw this out there:

I don't agree that Frank was a better coach than KSU is a job. I don't see why the KSU coaching gig can't be a good one.

We were arguably a top 25 program (when you look at Frank's five seasons as a whole.) That's really hard no matter where you are.

Is it?  because i don't think so

think again, bud.

[Dr Rick Daris]

if it was hard then every team would do it.

[Kat Kid]

I'm not sure if I succeeded or failed here....

[felix rex]

I hate the oscar hire. I will love him if he is successful. Nothing in his history or the start of this season makes me think he will be. This makes me sad. Go 'cats!

[MakeItRain]

I am confident in predicting that oscar well have a slightly better home record and equal road record to wooly

Either you're really dramatic or have a very poor memory