Bruceketball, we're in this for the long haul.

[wabash909]

The Tucks have already started to wheel out the "he needs time to get the basketball players to fit his system" talking point.

Hold us Mr. Bread!  It's starting...   


edit:  The main points of tuck stupidity in bold.

barborugby

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #22901
Wichita
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
These are not the players for his system and they haven't made it work to a high degree.

I don't love the Weber offensive philosophy but I believe he was the best coach we were going to get last season and an improvement over the Martin mess which was about to break.

Frank Martin did not want to spend his career coaching in Manhattan and his relationship with Currie was a symptom of that not the cause.
Posted from Rivals Mobile


stranger8503

Post #3688
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
He needs basketball players to play his system. Only has a couple of "shooters" to work with now. His philosophy isn't based on "uglying" the game up like others...

But it's obvious these players are used to playing ugly basketball.
12/8 3:47 PM | IP: Logged


cat breath

Almost on scholarship
Post #445

MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

No cussing
12/8 3:47 PM | IP: Logged


goose

Post #2891
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
Does the Frank Martin hire look good at South Carolina?
12/8 4:03 PM | IP: Logged


DeftKillerStu

Almost on scholarship
Post #479
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
His only loss is to a top 5 team where we would have more than 1 loss under Frank.  Frank would have tried to teach some stupid lesson by us losing to an inferior team, guaranteed. 
12/8 4:05 PM | IP: Logged


tracer22

On full scholarship
Post #1447

MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

Originally posted by ksu4all:
"His philosophy isn't based on "uglying" the game up like others.."

That's exactly how he won at Southern Illinois.

And isn't the coaches job to adapt to his personnel? It's too early to crucify Weber, but he has been doing a mediocre job so far.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

I would say after a coach has established his offensive and defensive philosophy, it is his job to tailor that a bit to his players.  The problem this season is if he plays "Frank Martin Basketball" he will never get his type players recruited here. This year is not the year we are going to win the Big Dance.  He is going to put in his system and then recruit players to fit it.  He will do his best to coach the current team in his system, but they were recruited to come here and play a different brand of basketball, so it isn't like we are going to be a top 10 team this year.  Bottom line today is his team won even though they don't have great shooters and often showed that they still have a lot of learning to do to execute properly. 
12/8 4:06 PM | IP: Logged


barborugby

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #22904
Wichita
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
Great post, tracer.

I got, appreciated, and enjoyed what FM wants to do in a basketball game. I believe it is a very high floor way and one that can work in a place where it's traditionally difficult to recruit.

That's not what Weber or most coaches are trying to do. It shows and we won't know the true direction of this program for a couple seasons.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
This post was edited on 12/8 4:15 PM by barborugby
12/8 4:10 PM | IP: Logged

kccall

Post #3696
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
I have a solution for some of you - rivals would be thrilled if you sign up on the South Carolina site. That is where some of you need to be, really. Very bitter people, some of you.
12/8 4:11 PM | IP: Logged

ReReWinter

Post #982
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
Hey mcClueless, way to support your university. Give BW time!!!
12/8 4:16 PM | IP: Logged



The_Greatest

A solid starter
Post #4400
Anywhere other than ku

MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
You seriously expect our team to be improved after 8 games in a new system compared to Frank's team after the players have been running his system for 4 years?  Get a life.
12/8 4:24 PM | IP: Logged


DU_Kappa

Post #824
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
angel, Will, and others are still on the team, which they would not have been . . .

The boys are smiling.

I am not cringing as the boys are being yelled at.

I agree. We are 7 - 1. Too early to judge. Give him time.
12/8 4:41 PM | IP: Logged


cjh

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #15466
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
It is freaking December and he is using players with very little skill. Do you freaking remember some of Frank's terrible losses? You are tiresome.
12/8 4:51 PM | IP: Logged


Legore

Post #5195
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
I'm not a webber fan but this stuff is stupid it takes time for teams to gel. You really don't know much about any team until mid January or so much less a team with a new coach. Give the guy a fair chance he hasn't even had a bad loss here yet. Huggins, Martin, bill self I don't care what coach you are talking about they all have some sloppy performances early in the season. Yeah I know ku crushed cu today but they struggled in the game before this one it happens this time of the year and it doesn't mean anything. I think we'll know if webber can get it done or not by the of this year given the players he has on this team. People on both sides of the argument are dumb now those ripping him and those saying we don't have any players they are all idiots.
12/8 4:52 PM | IP: Logged


AJWildcat

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #13119
Lee's Summit, MO
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply


Originally posted by mclutts8181:
ALSO HAD BRAZIL TRIP



And that should be enough to transition into a new coach?  Didn't we have to leave the Brazil trip early?  Or was that someone else who left their trip abroad early due to dirty play?  Who knows how much we really got accomplished there.  Brazil trip or not, we're still very into the tenure of a new coach.  We saw ugly shooting during much of Frank's tenure as well.  I was not crazy about the Webber hire, but I do think he can be a good fit here.  And right now, his team is 7-1.  Have a couple games been ugly?  Yes, but how many ugly games did we have under Frank?  Heck, we almost lost to UNF at home last year and made the tourney.  One year we almost lost to what, Fort Hays, at home?  That team still made the tourney.  I am certainly not bailing on this team or HCBW eight games into a season where the only loss is to one of the top teams in the country with several NBA caliber players.
12/8 5:03 PM | IP: Logged


Pusser

Post #4185
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Agreed. It's too early to be judging HCBW.   Reply
It's obvious that FHCFM got more out of some players, but HCBW is getting more (or will) of others who prefer his coaching style. We're still figuring out this offense, and when we do, we'll hit the shots, but we've only lost to #4 in the country, and we have to play 2 more Top 10 teams in the next couple of weeks, so those are 2 more likely losses----but we didn't play that kind of murderers-row in non-conf the last few years, so it's hard to compare.  This year?  We might look pretty iffy, but we can't judge HCBW's success for another year or two, and THEN, it'll likely be on recruiting, not coaching.
12/8 5:46 PM | IP: Logged


MCthe Cat

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #28535
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
quite Frankly losing Frank's players wouldn't have been that big of a deal and could have recruited  more of Weber type players had they left.  Still not convinced half of Frank's players on this team are really that great anyways, but it is what it is and coach Weber needs to get the most out of them.
This post was edited on 12/8 6:04 PM by MCthe Cat
12/8 6:02 PM | IP: Logged


lovecats

A solid starter
Post #4546
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

Are you serious? How many games have you been too? There is considerable improvement, there is even actual in-game coaching going on...nothing like that happened under Frank...the kids dropped their heads and just walked to the bench. Go to a game...may be then you would understand, but then again, you would first have to understand basketball.
12/8 6:18 PM | IP: Logged


ChiTwnCat

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #20256
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

Just curious... how long do you think it should take for a new coaching staff with a totally different offensive style to instill that system with their new team and have that team running it smoothly like they have been running it for years?  Personally I think it takes longer than six months but that's just me.
12/8 6:32 PM | IP: Logged


SEKScat

On full scholarship
Post #1906
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
I went from being a Frank Martin fan to being ready for him to go. I mean how many 'F' bombs can one man drop in a season? And I'll admit I was not thrilled with the Weber hire. It doesn't mean I don't hope we win. Hell, I would gladly eat crow if BW elevates us to an Elite 8 or two or a Final Four over the next 6 or 7 years.  But what the heck is 'his kind of player'?  My guess would be it's a player recruited by Bill Self since those were the players he had the most success with at Illinois. It's easy to say BW's 'kind of player' is an overachieving kid who can shoot lights out. Guess what, great shooters (at least against big time defenses) don't grow on trees. It must not be higher star recruits since his team last year had as many top recruits as any classes he brought in to Champagne.  I think we have some talent, experience and depth on this years team.

We made the hire. I didn't like it. I hope I'm wrong. Go 'Cats!
12/8 6:50 PM | IP: Logged


wichita_cat

GoPowercat Ring of Fame member
Post #43672
The Lonely Street of Dreams

MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply
it's folly to draw strong conclusions for a 7th year coach who has recruited his entire roster based upon Nov/Dec games - take that to the Nth power on a new coach asking guys to play a bit differently than they did up until this point.

i don't know that weber is going to prove a successful hire, i do know that there's a lot of overanalysis happening for this time in the season (using the word "analysis" VERY loosely).
12/8 6:50 PM | IP: Logged


GothCat

Post #1656
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply


Originally posted by mclutts8181:

Cue the attacks and name calling at me for questioning what looks to be (at the moment) an absolutely awful hire.
This post was edited on 12/8 3:53 PM by mclutts8181


Yes,the Currie bots don't have the capability to watch whats going on with this team. oscar Weber is not a good fit for our current players. He was also not a good fit for the players he recruited to Illinois either. oscar Weber got fired from Illinois for a reason last year. I will be very surprised for this team to make the NCAA tournament this year. 
12/8 9:13 PM | IP: Logged



ARM58

All-Big 12 performer
Post #8004
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

Originally posted by GothCat:


Originally posted by mclutts8181:

Cue the attacks and name calling at me for questioning what looks to be (at the moment) an absolutely awful hire.
This post was edited on 12/8 3:53 PM by mclutts8181


Yes,the Currie bots don't have the capability to watch whats going on with this team. oscar Weber is not a good fit for our current players. He was also not a good fit for the players he recruited to Illinois either. oscar Weber got fired from Illinois for a reason last year. I will be very surprised for this team to make the NCAA tournament this year. 


the attacks are probably based on the stupidity of making definitive and negative statements towards a team with 1 loss...

you want to stake your reputation on calling this an "absolutely awful hire" when a team is 7-1? despite having the two senior leaders with 3 years of frank martin's master teachings absolutely collapsing to the point of one shooting .19% on 3 pointers (worse than spradling last year!!! and spradling should have been sidelined last year with the injury instead of out there when he was slumping... so where should rod be???) and the other being out-played by every other big man on the roster???


i was not happy with the michigan game... i voiced that strongly on here.. but there is zero proof to even call this a bad hire at the moment... to call it "absolutely awful" is 100% pure stupidity on your part.... and frankly, any attack would be deserved.... the fact that you preemptively whined about really says a lot about your posting skills
12/8 9:25 PM | IP: Logged


saxman

Post #4828
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore   
Re: What is improved under oscar Weber?   Reply

Originally posted by ehumm:
Having seen 3 games in person (2 in NYC and today) - 1) they seem slow, slow to do things, slow on the court   2) I thought we'd actually be better on D not defending guys 40 ft from the basket, but we give up a ton of offensive rebounds.  JO not showing up has probably been a huge part of the problem.

He showed good effort today when he was in, but foul trouble kept his minutes down.

I think they are definitely still thinking too much and not just " playing".  The few spots they've looked good in the 3 games I've seen are when they have played decent D, rebounded and got out into transition.  They move and cut better, they go hard to the O boards and actually seem confident when they are runnning.  When they have to walk it up - PAINFUL.
That isn't surprising, Frank's teams were awful at half court sets and they are still adjusting to Weber's system.
12/9 1:55 AM | IP: Logged

[Lrrrrman]

DNR 

[CNS]

God damn it

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[michigancat]

Jesus, my head hurts.

[MakeItRain]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

[wabash909]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

The problem is they're too stupid to even know what they're suggesting.

[Stevesie60]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

Well yeah, MIR, all of those players had a year to get better! If oscar was there this season, will all of those players having gotten a a year more experience, he'd be having the same success.

On a serious note, if Illinois wins the Big 10 or goes to the Final 4, do you think oscar is going to take a bunch of credit for recruiting them? He'll probably bring it up all the time.

[Mr Bread]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

He was pressured to recruit highly-rated players.  It's one of the things he identified in his post-firing press rounds that he did wrong.  Pressured to bring in boatloads of four star, top-100 kids he couldn't win with.  He said he got away from what he knew worked.     

[Tobias]

On a serious note, if Illinois wins the Big 10 or goes to the Final 4, do you think oscar is going to take a bunch of credit for recruiting them? He'll probably bring it up all the time.

he'll charlie weis the media harder than charlie did, for sure

[CNS]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

He was pressured to recruit highly-rated players.  It's one of the things he identified in his post-firing press rounds that he did wrong.  Pressured to bring in boatloads of four star, top-100 kids he couldn't win with.  He said he got away from what he knew worked.     

eff me. This is going to be bad

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[catzacker]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

He was pressured to recruit highly-rated players.  It's one of the things he identified in his post-firing press rounds that he did wrong.  Pressured to bring in boatloads of four star, top-100 kids he couldn't win with.  He said he got away from what he knew worked.     

eff me. This is going to be bad

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

this is, essentially, what bill said when he came back.

[scottwildcat]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

nope denied, go do some big eared dumb ass 17 yearold's taxes who works for the athletic department and now doesn't

[kitten_mittons]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

nope denied, go do some big eared dumb ass 17 yearold's taxes who works for the athletic department and now doesn't

Too much pride

[8manpick]

I hate them

[0.42]

Willful stupidity makes me irrationally angry. I need to start reading tuck logic in smaller doses.

[kougar24]

Someone ask them to explain Illinois this season.  Seems John Groce is doing a pretty good job making players fit his system.  I guess that was oscar's issue last year too, he had an entire team of misfits.

He was pressured to recruit highly-rated players.  It's one of the things he identified in his post-firing press rounds that he did wrong.  Pressured to bring in boatloads of four star, top-100 kids he couldn't win with.  He said he got away from what he knew worked.     

eff me. This is going to be bad

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

this is, essentially, what bill said when he came back.

Comparing bball to fball recruiting

[nicname]

Illinois' success concerns me quite a bit.  Far more than what oscar has or has not done with our team. 

They were pretty good to start last year as well before things went downhill, so it isn't like there wasn't evidence the the team could win.  Frank left because he was losing the team?  I dunno, they still went to the tournament.  We replaced him with a guy whose team fell from the top 15 to a horrendous losing record. 

Time will tell, I guess.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't think anything has happened this season that warrants making excuses for oscar. We have only lost one game, to a top 5 team at that. What kind of excuses are we going to see when oscar actually loses to a crappy team? Are people really melting down over a road win at GW?

[bigwillie20]

I don't think anything has happened this season that warrants making excuses for oscar. We have only lost one game, to a top 5 team at that. What kind of excuses are we going to see when oscar actually loses to a crappy team? Are people really melting down over a road win at GW?

I'm not melting all the way down yet.  I'm extremely pissed because all the concerns about oscar being soft and turning the team into a giant group of soft pussies appears to be coming true

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think Gottlieb would have been pretty soft as well, fwiw. He would have had more potential for long term success, though.

[MakeItRain]

I don't think anything has happened this season that warrants making excuses for oscar. We have only lost one game, to a top 5 team at that. What kind of excuses are we going to see when oscar actually loses to a crappy team? Are people really melting down over a road win at GW?

People who have the ability to look at and analyze what happens on the court have concerns, if you want to call that a melt down so be it I guess.

I think Gottlieb would have been pretty soft as well, fwiw. He would have had more potential for long term success, though.

I would love to know how you hypothesized this.  Young former players tend to be much more demanding.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I don't think anything has happened this season that warrants making excuses for oscar. We have only lost one game, to a top 5 team at that. What kind of excuses are we going to see when oscar actually loses to a crappy team? Are people really melting down over a road win at GW?

People who have the ability to look at and analyze what happens on the court have concerns, if you want to call that a melt down so be it I guess.

I think Gottlieb would have been pretty soft as well, fwiw. He would have had more potential for long term success, though.

I would love to know how you hypothesized this.  Young former players tend to be much more demanding.

Soft was probably the wrong word. Gottlieb seems like a very nice guy, though, and I'm mostly going off of his radio interview where he laid out how he would build a staff and coach this team. That doesn't mean he would be a bad coach like oscar, but he I don't see him being as demanding as Frank. I wanted Currie to hire Antigua, but Gottlieb would have been okay, too.

I'm sure the wheels will come off pretty soon. I just don't see why a oscar supporter would be making excuses like "he just needs to get his players here" when as far as wins and losses go, the season has been going as well as anybody could have hoped. It's not like Frank's teams were always playing good basketball in November.

[steve dave]

JFC with the nice guy crap