Author Topic: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under  (Read 17367 times)

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Offline michigancat

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2012, 09:47:20 PM »
I think Buzz would be a great hire for UT and think he would do great there, but Rick has been the second best program in the Big 12 since he's been at UT. Yes, he has ups and downs, but as a whole, no one is close to him for 2nd best. Could Buzz do better? Maybe, but he'll still always be 2nd best.

Offline Skipper44

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #76 on: December 10, 2012, 10:03:03 PM »
I think Buzz would be a great hire for UT and think he would do great there, but Rick has been the second best program in the Big 12 since he's been at UT. Yes, he has ups and downs, but as a whole, no one is close to him for 2nd best. Could Buzz do better? Maybe, but he'll still always be 2nd best.
do you think he will hold out for a blue blood job?  Can't see him at UNC, UCLA or Duke, maybe IU.  Hopefully KU hires Turg or Tad over him

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #77 on: December 10, 2012, 10:46:45 PM »
I think Buzz would be a great hire for UT and think he would do great there, but Rick has been the second best program in the Big 12 since he's been at UT. Yes, he has ups and downs, but as a whole, no one is close to him for 2nd best. Could Buzz do better? Maybe, but he'll still always be 2nd best.
do you think he will hold out for a blue blood job?  Can't see him at UNC, UCLA or Duke, maybe IU.  Hopefully KU hires Turg or Tad over him

Oh, I'm not sure he could get a better job than Texas. He's kind of weird and makes his living off unknown jucos.Texas might even think they're too good for him.

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #78 on: December 10, 2012, 10:52:35 PM »
If you're Texas, you go after Jay Wright.  Why?  Because of course!

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2012, 01:33:11 AM »
MU hasn't done well recruiting Chicago (outside of D-Wade who was a lightly-recruited partial qualifier) in my lifetime; the guys they get are generally second-tier in terms of top-program interest.  They don't win major recruiting battles in the city.  MU really doesn't move the needle nationally either.  Texas may not have before Barnes, but it does now, particularly with recruits.  Another coach wouldn't have to rebuild that rep, he could just expand on it.  I'd pick Texas in a heartbeat. 

MU doesn't need to recruit Chicago anymore than UT doesn't need to recruit Texas.  Its nice that it is there for both programs but you are expected to bring in national recruits at both places.  As already stated this wasn't the case before Barnes at UT.  Buzz's '13 class is in the top 10 his '10 class was #17 and his '09 class was #14, seems he is moving the needle nationally fine.  He is 5 years in and only 40 years old, stands to reason his recruiting isn't getting worse.  I wonder if any coach at perennial national power Texas had 3 out of his first 6 recruiting classes in the top 20 :dunno:

You brought up Chicago as a positive for MU, I just pointed out that while it is geographically close, they don't compete for top-Chicago kids.  They just don't get them.  The best one aside from Wade, who they only got because all the other big names passed him up, was Jerel McNeal (Rivals #99 in 2005).  They didn't beat out anyone big-time for him.  Point being, it's actually not a plus in their column.   

As to the remainder, I'd say you're better than this, but evidently not.  You're not honestly suggesting that Texas before Barnes is the same as Texas after 15 years of Barnes are you?  What Texas was when some guy you went to school with got recruited is not even remotely similar to what Barnes has built it into, and therefore not relevant to the present discussion.  It is a national name amongst recruits now.  It is one of a handful of schools that is commonly accepted amongst 5-star kids as a possible destination without any special circumstances surrounding their recruitment.  The three years you throw out as achievements for Buzz at MU are down years in recruiting for Texas now.  Did Barnes make it so?  Certainly, but it won't just disappear once he's gone.  He's doing that crap with underachievement on the court (as judged by the very recruiting standards he himself set).  If they hire another good/great recruiter who is actually a strong coach as well, they won't be taking a step back.  Texas is unquestionably a football first school, but they aren't about to let basketball slip in today's college athletics financial environment.  It matters too much with what they want to do in marketing and selling themselves.  They won't accept mediocrity, because it's too easy with their resources not to be.  That and with programs like Ohio State and Florida dominating on the basketball court, they're not about to take a back seat in terms of overall AD prestige.  MU doesn't hold a candle to what Texas has/is capable of, particularly with the Big East crumbling.  They are dangerously close to being knocked down a peg, while Texas isn't going anywhere.  More than likely they'll only get better as the funding disparity grows.
You missed my point about the Chicago thing and I clarified it, will try again.  Chicago is a plus because its there, just because they haven't, in your words, done well there doesn't mean it isn't a resource.  The state of Texas is a resource for Texas but contrary to what some think, they don't get every kid they want, still a resource because its right there. 

We'll agree to disagree about the rest of this.  If I rebut this I just be repeating my post for the most part.  I will say that you have no basis for what you claimed about UTs recruiting.  My point about my teammates recruitment was that how you view UT wasn't the case before Barnes, so you can't just blindly say those recruits are going to UT and not Rick Barnes like he's some interchangeable part.  Barnes is that program, he's all they ever had.  You have no historical basis to make UT minus Barnes some kind of monster, they literally were never that.  Marquette, on the other hand, has been a solid program under multiple coaches, over multiple eras.

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2012, 01:37:23 AM »
I think Buzz would be a great hire for UT and think he would do great there, but Rick has been the second best program in the Big 12 since he's been at UT. Yes, he has ups and downs, but as a whole, no one is close to him for 2nd best. Could Buzz do better? Maybe, but he'll still always be 2nd best.
do you think he will hold out for a blue blood job?  Can't see him at UNC, UCLA or Duke, maybe IU.  Hopefully KU hires Turg or Tad over him

Oh, I'm not sure he could get a better job than Texas. He's kind of weird and makes his living off unknown jucos.Texas might even think they're too good for him.

He doesn't convey the image they look for at UT.  Marquette is a great spot for him, would also be great at a place like OSU.

Offline michigancat

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Re: Re: Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #81 on: December 11, 2012, 07:30:33 AM »
I think Buzz would be a great hire for UT and think he would do great there, but Rick has been the second best program in the Big 12 since he's been at UT. Yes, he has ups and downs, but as a whole, no one is close to him for 2nd best. Could Buzz do better? Maybe, but he'll still always be 2nd best.
do you think he will hold out for a blue blood job?  Can't see him at UNC, UCLA or Duke, maybe IU.  Hopefully KU hires Turg or Tad over him

Oh, I'm not sure he could get a better job than Texas. He's kind of weird and makes his living off unknown jucos.Texas might even think they're too good for him.

He doesn't convey the image they look for at UT.  Marquette is a great spot for him, would also be great at a place like OSU.

Or KSU if we weren't run by dumbfucks.

Offline sonofdaxjones

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #82 on: December 11, 2012, 08:06:38 AM »
Rick Barnes is going through the motions at UT, he's not interested anymore.

Probably needs to go to ESPN.


Offline Mr Bread

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #83 on: December 11, 2012, 09:12:54 AM »
Rick Barnes is going through the motions at UT, he's not interested anymore.

Probably needs to go to ESPN.

It sure seems that way.  He doesn't even have a 2013 recruit signed.
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Offline Mr Bread

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #84 on: December 11, 2012, 09:17:26 AM »
MU hasn't done well recruiting Chicago (outside of D-Wade who was a lightly-recruited partial qualifier) in my lifetime; the guys they get are generally second-tier in terms of top-program interest.  They don't win major recruiting battles in the city.  MU really doesn't move the needle nationally either.  Texas may not have before Barnes, but it does now, particularly with recruits.  Another coach wouldn't have to rebuild that rep, he could just expand on it.  I'd pick Texas in a heartbeat. 

MU doesn't need to recruit Chicago anymore than UT doesn't need to recruit Texas.  Its nice that it is there for both programs but you are expected to bring in national recruits at both places.  As already stated this wasn't the case before Barnes at UT.  Buzz's '13 class is in the top 10 his '10 class was #17 and his '09 class was #14, seems he is moving the needle nationally fine.  He is 5 years in and only 40 years old, stands to reason his recruiting isn't getting worse.  I wonder if any coach at perennial national power Texas had 3 out of his first 6 recruiting classes in the top 20 :dunno:

You brought up Chicago as a positive for MU, I just pointed out that while it is geographically close, they don't compete for top-Chicago kids.  They just don't get them.  The best one aside from Wade, who they only got because all the other big names passed him up, was Jerel McNeal (Rivals #99 in 2005).  They didn't beat out anyone big-time for him.  Point being, it's actually not a plus in their column.   

As to the remainder, I'd say you're better than this, but evidently not.  You're not honestly suggesting that Texas before Barnes is the same as Texas after 15 years of Barnes are you?  What Texas was when some guy you went to school with got recruited is not even remotely similar to what Barnes has built it into, and therefore not relevant to the present discussion.  It is a national name amongst recruits now.  It is one of a handful of schools that is commonly accepted amongst 5-star kids as a possible destination without any special circumstances surrounding their recruitment.  The three years you throw out as achievements for Buzz at MU are down years in recruiting for Texas now.  Did Barnes make it so?  Certainly, but it won't just disappear once he's gone.  He's doing that crap with underachievement on the court (as judged by the very recruiting standards he himself set).  If they hire another good/great recruiter who is actually a strong coach as well, they won't be taking a step back.  Texas is unquestionably a football first school, but they aren't about to let basketball slip in today's college athletics financial environment.  It matters too much with what they want to do in marketing and selling themselves.  They won't accept mediocrity, because it's too easy with their resources not to be.  That and with programs like Ohio State and Florida dominating on the basketball court, they're not about to take a back seat in terms of overall AD prestige.  MU doesn't hold a candle to what Texas has/is capable of, particularly with the Big East crumbling.  They are dangerously close to being knocked down a peg, while Texas isn't going anywhere.  More than likely they'll only get better as the funding disparity grows.
You missed my point about the Chicago thing and I clarified it, will try again.  Chicago is a plus because its there, just because they haven't, in your words, done well there doesn't mean it isn't a resource.  The state of Texas is a resource for Texas but contrary to what some think, they don't get every kid they want, still a resource because its right there. 

We'll agree to disagree about the rest of this.  If I rebut this I just be repeating my post for the most part.  I will say that you have no basis for what you claimed about UTs recruiting.  My point about my teammates recruitment was that how you view UT wasn't the case before Barnes, so you can't just blindly say those recruits are going to UT and not Rick Barnes like he's some interchangeable part.  Barnes is that program, he's all they ever had.  You have no historical basis to make UT minus Barnes some kind of monster, they literally were never that.  Marquette, on the other hand, has been a solid program under multiple coaches, over multiple eras.

Yeah, I got a little carried away there.  More interested in threetaring in your face a bit than legitimately debating.  Sorry, MiR.  Still, I think Texas will stay a major recruiting power post-Barnes for the reasons previously stated and that is also why I think it's a better job than MU.   
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #85 on: December 11, 2012, 08:12:55 PM »
So coal aggie just lost to a 5-4 duquesne(?) squad. 
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #86 on: December 12, 2012, 10:19:08 AM »
There is a lot of OOC basketball left, but the crazy thing is the Big 12 is the 3rd/4th best conference if you look at a variety of measures (RPI, kenpom, etc.) If that stays the same, its still likely a 4 big league minimum. Seems ridiculous with the play of especially UT and WVU and how terrible Tech and TCU are, but 37 at large bids still have to go to the tournament. Just one of those down years in college basketball.

Offline _33

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #87 on: December 12, 2012, 10:29:59 AM »
There is a lot of OOC basketball left, but the crazy thing is the Big 12 is the 3rd/4th best conference if you look at a variety of measures (RPI, kenpom, etc.) If that stays the same, its still likely a 4 big league minimum. Seems ridiculous with the play of especially UT and WVU and how terrible Tech and TCU are, but 37 at large bids still have to go to the tournament. Just one of those down years in college basketball.

Seems like college basketball had been down for the last several years.  Most teams just aren't very good.  There are no stars. It's pretty boring to watch actually.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #88 on: December 12, 2012, 10:48:35 AM »
I don't think college basketball (or football, for that matter) have ever had up years. People just say it's a down year for the sport when their team is not doing well. Conferences have up and down years, but the entire sport of college basketball is not having a down year this season. There is just more parity than there used to be because there are less horrible teams.

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #89 on: December 12, 2012, 11:02:22 AM »
I don't think college basketball (or football, for that matter) have ever had up years. People just say it's a down year for the sport when their team is not doing well. Conferences have up and down years, but the entire sport of college basketball is not having a down year this season. There is just more parity than there used to be because there are less horrible teams.

don't take my comment the wrong way but your point is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

Offline Mr Bread

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #90 on: December 12, 2012, 11:38:52 AM »
There is a lot of OOC basketball left, but the crazy thing is the Big 12 is the 3rd/4th best conference if you look at a variety of measures (RPI, kenpom, etc.) If that stays the same, its still likely a 4 big league minimum. Seems ridiculous with the play of especially UT and WVU and how terrible Tech and TCU are, but 37 at large bids still have to go to the tournament. Just one of those down years in college basketball.

I've only seen the Big 12 as 7th in conference RPI recently (http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi and http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html and http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf).  This one http://www.rpiforecast.com/confrpi.html has them currently at 7th, but predicts a 5th place finish.

I'd say 4 maximum, not minimum. 
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #91 on: December 12, 2012, 12:05:53 PM »
I've only seen the Big 12 as 7th in conference RPI recently (http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2013/conferencerpi and http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html and http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf).  This one http://www.rpiforecast.com/confrpi.html has them currently at 7th, but predicts a 5th place finish.

I'd say 4 maximum, not minimum. 

 :facepalm:

Man, I glanced (quickly) and a couple of those same rankings, and I'm pretty sure I just saw "12" and didn't even look to see that it was "Pac".

Stupid post by me, ignore.

Offline CNS

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #92 on: December 12, 2012, 01:44:43 PM »
So coal aggie just lost to a 5-4 duquesne(?) squad.

Good god....

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #93 on: December 12, 2012, 02:23:53 PM »
So coal aggie just lost to a 5-4 duquesne(?) squad.

Good god....

i felt sorry for bob huggins' wife last night


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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #94 on: December 12, 2012, 02:33:46 PM »
I don't think college basketball (or football, for that matter) have ever had up years. People just say it's a down year for the sport when their team is not doing well. Conferences have up and down years, but the entire sport of college basketball is not having a down year this season. There is just more parity than there used to be because there are less horrible teams.

Compare the upper end of college ball in 2007-08 to the upper end this year. 

The 2007-2008 KSU Wildcats would probably be a top 10 team this year. 

Offline CNS

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #95 on: December 12, 2012, 02:35:36 PM »
I like when the entire sport is down.  Really makes the tourney awesome.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #96 on: December 12, 2012, 02:47:47 PM »
I don't think college basketball (or football, for that matter) have ever had up years. People just say it's a down year for the sport when their team is not doing well. Conferences have up and down years, but the entire sport of college basketball is not having a down year this season. There is just more parity than there used to be because there are less horrible teams.

Compare the upper end of college ball in 2007-08 to the upper end this year. 

The 2007-2008 KSU Wildcats would probably be a top 10 team this year.

They would probably be unranked.

Offline sys

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #97 on: December 15, 2012, 02:56:48 PM »
good job, ou.
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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #98 on: December 15, 2012, 11:15:52 PM »
Coal huggies lose as expected.  Future cats' foe Florida falls apart in the closing minutes/loses to other cats.  oscar of course Bruces. 
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Offline Skipper44

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Re: If only the ball was oblong: Big 12 bids over/under
« Reply #99 on: December 15, 2012, 11:18:31 PM »
yeah, this KSU cats season will be over on 1/22.    I will be rooting for us to play SoCar in the NIT