Author Topic: Lets get everyone on the record.  (Read 13048 times)

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Offline goCats101

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #75 on: November 25, 2012, 08:26:03 AM »
Careful. This is on record.

Only willing to talk off the record. Thread too intense for me.

Offline kso_FAN

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Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #76 on: November 25, 2012, 08:35:55 AM »
Jim got 6.

And it's a different athletics world. No postseason at all over 2 years and oscar is likely gone and without a doubt after 3.

Offline wabash909

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #77 on: November 25, 2012, 08:45:51 AM »
Jim got 6.

And it's a different athletics world. No postseason at all over 2 years and oscar is likely gone and without a doubt after 3.

I'd like to think so, but we've got a pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) fan base, Fan.

The Altman/Asbury/Wooldridge 20 year span happened for a reason. 

Hell, we signed the #1 recruting class five years ago and people area convinced it's impossible to recruit to Manhattan and that stars are meaningless.

Texas Christian University coach Gary Patterson has been hired as Kansas State's 34th football coach, multiple sources have confirmed to GoPowercat.com.  Patterson replaces Ron Prince, who was fired Wednesday. - Tim Fitzgerald   Nov, 7, 2008

Offline kso_FAN

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Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #78 on: November 25, 2012, 08:53:47 AM »
Jim got 6.

And it's a different athletics world. No postseason at all over 2 years and oscar is likely gone and without a doubt after 3.

I'd like to think so, but we've got a pretty Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) fan base, Fan.

The Altman/Asbury/Wooldridge 20 year span happened for a reason. 

Hell, we signed the #1 recruting class five years ago and people area convinced it's impossible to recruit to Manhattan and that stars are meaningless.

I don't completely disagree about our fans, but the state of the program is much more like when Altman became coach, not Wooly. Altman's .333 league winning didn't cut it. Now, our fans may accept a middling NIT program, but not the absolute bottom that Jim brought.

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #79 on: November 25, 2012, 08:59:36 AM »
I think if Currie leaves after this year or possibly next, we might get a new coach after year 4 (just depends on how bad the team crashes after this year).  I dunno.  Probably year 5.  I think Self will have no problem shoving it into Webs as deep as it can go, so maybe that will get the tucks all riled up. 

Offline Trim

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #80 on: November 25, 2012, 09:34:30 AM »
I think if Currie leaves after this year or possibly next, we might get a new coach after year 4 (just depends on how bad the team crashes after this year). 

This was my logic.  If Currie stays, wabash is right.

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #81 on: November 25, 2012, 09:52:47 AM »
Jim Wooldridge would have made the tournament with these players, right? Can we all agree on that?

Offline kso_FAN

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Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #82 on: November 25, 2012, 09:55:47 AM »
Jim Wooldridge would have made the tournament with these players, right? Can we all agree on that?

Not necessarily. Jim had decent talent, probably not quite this much, but close.

Offline wabash909

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #83 on: November 25, 2012, 10:01:25 AM »
Jim Wooldridge would have made the tournament with these players, right? Can we all agree on that?

Jim Wooldridge was pretty snakebiten, Jakesie.  When it came to losing, I wouldn't put anything past him.

Texas Christian University coach Gary Patterson has been hired as Kansas State's 34th football coach, multiple sources have confirmed to GoPowercat.com.  Patterson replaces Ron Prince, who was fired Wednesday. - Tim Fitzgerald   Nov, 7, 2008

Offline yosh

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #84 on: November 25, 2012, 10:07:24 AM »
Jim Wooldridge would have made the tournament with these players, right? Can we all agree on that?

absolutely not.  In 50 tries, it wouldn't happen.  Wooly is a loser by the strictist definition.  He loses.  He wouldn't have made it with any of Franks teams either.  He would make it with Self's talent, but would have zero conference titles over the past seven years with those same KU rosters. 

Offline Stevesie60

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2012, 10:09:26 AM »
Just looked it up. Jim Wooldridge would win the Big 12 and probably make the Final 4 with this roster, DEFINITELY the Elite 8. Just think of what Asbury could have done with it....

Offline MakeItRain

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Re: Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #86 on: November 25, 2012, 02:18:48 PM »
martin's staff best trait is an ability to recognize talent.

that's certainly possible.  i really have no idea.

Luckily for Frank, this staff followed a lunatic on a downward spiral to a program that hasn't been to an ncaa tournament since I honestly don't know when.

Mixed Nutz is so butthurt about Frank that he won't give him credit for something that all head coaches get credit for.  Frank hires own assistants right?  I may be wrong, someone please tell me if I am.

Offline 0.42

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #87 on: November 25, 2012, 07:16:28 PM »
Length of Tenure at current schools

oscar: 6
Frank: 3

Reason for end of tenure

oscar: Fired
Frank: Leaves for another job

High conference finish

oscar: 4
Frank: 3

Average conference finish

oscar: 6
Frank: 5

Will they coach at another Big conference school

oscar: No
Frank: Yes

Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2012, 07:20:35 PM »
Length of Tenure

Frank - 5
oscar - 6

Reason for end of tenure

Frank - Who knows?  With Frank there is always his temper lurking like a shark tail in the curve of expected outcomes, but  I think that it is reasonable to expect that he is average there, which would make him a certifiable SC hoops legend.  A well respected coach in a conference that allows him to make the tourney/NIT more than he otherwise would in a different conference.  I'll say 4 post-seasons, probably 2 bubble teams, 2 NIT.  1 Tourney to 3 NIT if I had to nail something down.

oscar - '12- NCAA rd 32, '13 Bubble lose 1st rd, '14 NIT 2 seed, '15 Bubble, '16 NIT '17 Meltdown

Conference Play

Not sure if anyone posting in this thread noticed, but the SEC abandoned divisional play.  The divisions don't matter for seeding in the conference tournament and they don't matter much for the 18 game schedule.  So I'm going to list what I think Frank is going to do in the 14 team confy.

Frank - http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/standings/_/id/23/year/2012/sec-conference 10-6 got you 2nd place a lot of years in the SEC.  I think Frank gets 5 this year, and averages 9.5 after that.  10 wins should be good enough for Frank to make the post-season every year.  Frank gets 6 games against Mississippi St., Auburn and LSU and 3 against UK, Florida, Tenn.

oscar - round robin means 6-8 brutal/toss-up games a year. 6-8 winnable games and 2-4 freebies.  oscar averages 9 wins.  Finishes in the top 4 two or three times, but closer to 5 and the middle of the pack than ever threatening top 2.  Unfortunately as has been repeatedly speculated around these parts this will be good enough for a long comfortable tenure, followed by the tide finally turning, likely on the back of KU's 200th victory in the series by some ungodly point differential, with the media absolutely killing oscar while Frank is smiling in March and Bill Self is cutting nets on a ladder all across America.

Will they coach at another Big conference school

Frank - Yes.
oscar - Probably.

Offline CyberToothCat

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2012, 08:27:01 PM »
What are your predictions for the career paths of Frank and oscar from this point, in an effort to have some continuity of responses here are some categories

Length of Tenure at current schools
Frank - 4 yrs
oscar - 4 yrs


Reason for end of tenure
Frank - fired for losing
oscar - fired for losing


High conference finish
Frank - 8th
oscar - 4th (this year)


Average conference finish
Frank - 10th
oscar - 8th


Will they coach at another Big conference school
Frank - no
oscar - no


Offline sys

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2012, 11:16:08 PM »
weber isn't going to crash and burn here, as much as i'd like for him to.  he's a good bball coach, he'll be here for as long as he wants.
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Offline hemmy

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2012, 11:20:23 PM »
this is just a placeholder, I will come back and edit this later

Offline Cartierfor3

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2012, 11:33:23 PM »
Length of Tenure at current schools
oscar - 5
Frank - 4

Reason for end of tenure
oscar - Retires/Resigns
Frank - Leaves for FSU/Miami/Florida

High conference finish
oscar - 4th
Frank - 4th

Average conference finish
oscar - 5th
Frank - 7th (average will be skewed because of this year)

Will they coach at another Big conference school
oscar - No
Frank - Yes

I expect a lot of bubble-ish seasons from oscar.  Frank thrived on big wins, especially post 2009.  I just can't see a scenario where we routinely beat good (non-ku) teams on the road like Frank did. 

My guess is that we'll slowly decline, and have an awful season in oscar's 5th year.  He'll gracefully retire without controversy. 

Online nicname

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2012, 11:51:50 PM »
What are your predictions for the career paths of Frank and oscar from this point, in an effort to have some continuity of responses here are some categories

I originally thought that Frank would have a tough time at USC given the state of their program, but the Thornwell commit coupled with a pretty shallow SEC makes me more inclined to think Frank will make good things happen there.  I don't think he is going to take the next flight out of town either.  Frank is pretty young, and I think he can and will build USC into what he had at KSU.  A consistently solid team that's ceiling is competing for a conference title and will be on the outside of the NCAA bubble in the down years.

I really can't judge oscar yet.  I think the fact that he and his staff have seen success and failure will at least have them motivated for a while.  We'll see if that can be sustained along with K-State's program.  The recruiting trail will show us this imo, because I think we have capable tacticians on the staff.  I think that they will be successful enough for oscar to coach here until he chooses to leave on his own accord depending on staff turnover.  Similar success to Frank but I'm less optimistic for the ceiling with oscar at K-State.

Length of Tenure
Frank - 5 or 6 years
oscar - 7 or 8 years

Reason for end of tenure
Frank - Takes "Dream Job" at some bigger name school in the East/ Southeast
oscar - Retires/ Resigns

High conference finish
Frank - 2nd
oscar - 3rd

Average conference finish
Frank - 4 or 5 out of 14 (which is pretty good)
oscar - 5 out of 10 (which is less good but not bad enough to get oscar run from Manhattan)

Will they coach at another Big conference school
Frank - Definitely
oscar - Never
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Offline bones129

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #94 on: November 26, 2012, 12:18:59 AM »
this is just a placeholder, I will come back and edit this later

I like this. A reserved spot.

Offline SuperG

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #95 on: November 26, 2012, 01:58:18 AM »
weber isn't going to crash and burn here, as much as i'd like for him to.  he's a good bball coach, he'll be here for as long as he wants.

It will more closely resemble the death of a star in distant galaxy.

Offline SuperG

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #96 on: November 26, 2012, 01:58:45 AM »
weber isn't going to crash and burn here, as much as i'd like for him to.  he's a good bball coach, he'll be here for as long as he wants.

Very :confused: by this. Perhaps we're defining "good" in completely different ways? Just in case that's not the case, what would lead you to use such a positive word when describing oscar?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2012, 02:03:46 AM by SuperG »

Offline sys

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #97 on: November 26, 2012, 03:17:05 AM »
what would lead you to use such a positive word when describing oscar?

he's done good things and bad things.  it's really hard to do as well as he has at times in his career, i don't think it is likely that he just had a run of good luck.  i also don't think that his failures were runs of poor luck.  but there may be more space between bad and weber, or even mediocre and weber, than some here are eager to admit.


i've posted many times that i think it is highly improbable that currie would have hired a better coach than weber, had he hired someone else.  my discontent is not that he hired weber, but that he ran off a better coach in order to do so.
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Offline WillieWatanabe

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #98 on: November 26, 2012, 06:29:21 AM »
what would lead you to use such a positive word when describing oscar?

he's done good things and bad things.  it's really hard to do as well as he has at times in his career, i don't think it is likely that he just had a run of good luck.  i also don't think that his failures were runs of poor luck.  but there may be more space between bad and weber, or even mediocre and weber, than some here are eager to admit.


i've posted many times that i think it is highly improbable that currie would have hired a better coach than weber, had he hired someone else.  my discontent is not that he hired weber, but that he ran off a better coach in order to do so.

didn't use nazi, not a real sys post.
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Offline kso_FAN

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Re: Lets get everyone on the record.
« Reply #99 on: November 26, 2012, 08:13:43 AM »
what would lead you to use such a positive word when describing oscar?

he's done good things and bad things.  it's really hard to do as well as he has at times in his career, i don't think it is likely that he just had a run of good luck.  i also don't think that his failures were runs of poor luck.  but there may be more space between bad and weber, or even mediocre and weber, than some here are eager to admit.


i've posted many times that i think it is highly improbable that currie would have hired a better coach than weber, had he hired someone else.  my discontent is not that he hired weber, but that he ran off a better coach in order to do so.

Good post. I agree that its not either good/bad luck.

To me last year's Weber was even more bizarre because it was so much like Mangino's last year at KU.

They were 15-3/4-1, ranked in the Top 25 (in January) and coming off a win over a Top 10 team (OSU) that ended up going to the final 4. Even beat another Top 10 team a couple weeks later (MSU). Then completely fell apart.