Michigan Stats

[kso_FAN]

Frank Richards and Tim Ellis didn't walk through that door. Out scored 10-3 to start the first half and 14-3 to start 2nd. Marathon, etc.

1st   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   26   0.91   32.1%   11.4%   34.8%   32.1%
Opp   26   1.10   50.0%   15.2%   30.8%   39.1%

2nd   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   33   0.99   46.9%   9.0%   19.0%   18.8%
Opp   33   1.26   59.1%   15.0%   40.0%   12.1%

Total   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   60   0.95   40.0%   10.0%   27.3%   25.0%
Opp   60   1.18   55.4%   15.0%   35.7%   23.2%

[Cire]

Worse than I thought

[MakeItRain]

OR%

[IlliniTillIDie]

Can you guys send Weber to a sports psychologist?  He coaches with his arms crossed shuffling up and down the sideline and screeching instructions the whole time.  He looks rough ridin' nuts.  Who wants to be around that?

He is such an bad person.

[MakeItRain]

So I'm furious, but I will not allow myself to meltdown, yet.  A lot of ills can be cured by simply making shots, we've seen plenty of performances like this one through the years to be surprised but its still disappointing.  I really wish I saw some fire from oscar, this has nothing to do with the old coach.  Showing some emotion when you are getting physically destroyed and destroyed on the scoreboard is something I've always preferred from a coach.  The arms crossed thing seems to piss me off more.

Anyway about stuff on the court, I don't buy Dakich & Burke's talking point about Rod not being used to scoring off of screens.  First of all, he like any other wing has scored off of screens plenty.  Secondly, he isn't exclusively shooting jumpshots directly off the screens, he's putting the ball on the floor.  I'd be willing to bet that if you saw a shot chart the places he's shooting from is virtually the same.  He seemed a bit more aggressive, which is good, I think he's close to working out of this.

I am also okay with Will going 1-9.  My complaint has been his lack of aggression, that is becoming less of an issue.  When we went into prolonged droughts he didn't hide on the court, he tried to make big shots, that's half of the battle.

Dakich was also wrong in his criticism of JO not passing.  Side note Dakich is great in the studio & on radio but he is awful as an analyst.  Anyway, first of all there's no cutters when we throw it into the post, so why should he just reset the ball to the inconsistent shooting guards?  Again aggression is good, I like a guy who doesn't pass up three foot shots, I just wish he had more than a spinning fade.

Would love for Angel to get some help.  I was always way far away from an Angel hater, but I think I have absolutely underrated him.

DJamer has earned Nino's starting spot.  Nino has shown more than I thought he would but he is too limited.  DJamer is simply better than Nino in every way possible, and that gap is only going to widen.  Again I like what Nino has done, but DJamer needs more minutes.  Speaking of bigs, Diaz is an awful defender.  Why does he play help defense like he's 5'7" and afraid of contact?  He's always late and does nothing definitive when he gets there.

I guess that's it.  This likely belongs in the Michigan thread, but real being real that thread is sort of a tard fest.

[kso_FAN]

Good stuff MIR. And if we can keep this a real basketball discussion thread that would be great.

I agree that in general being passive is the biggest concern. We went through a stretch or two of good basketball, but just not enough. It's clear we are struggling with oscar's offense and how to get shots. We aren't going to force pace (though we have to play faster than 60 possessions) so we have to oboard and get to the FT line to win until shots fall. We didn't get terrible shots really, we just can't make anything. I like a lot of things about our defense, though the first 5-7 minutes of the 2nd half was bad.

I understand people being upset, but I tonight really didn't change much about my expectations for this team. Michigan is legit top 10 and will be better than likely all but 1 big 12 opponent. The league simply isn't that good and we can still finish over .500.

oscar's challenge is to blend what he wants to do with what these guys can do and I'm not surprised that's still a work in progress. Get Angel and Rodney going in particular and we can still be pretty good.

[Dugout DickStone]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

[MakeItRain]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

I'm not sure he could either.  The defensive game plan was solid, the rest I don't think we were prepared for how physical they were.  Michigan is a small team not known for physicality but they beat our asses.

[kso_FAN]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

I'm not sure he could either.  The defensive game plan was solid, the rest I don't think we were prepared for how physical they were.  Michigan is a small team not known for physicality but they beat our asses.

Yeah, we overmatched all the bad OOC teams, but we couldn't sustain that for 40 minutes against UM. I was not surprised that they had more talent, but I was surprised they were more physical. oscar cannot let that happen, that's his hope for this team.

[catzacker]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

I am confused in what I am supposed to be looking at or for.  I cannot figure out what he wants out of his bigs.  Where are their shots supposed to come from on the court?  They seem to enjoy shooting 12-15 footers.

And overall, the entire team lacked physicality. Which isn't a comparison to frank.

[_33]

Am I overstating the talking point that we just don't have anyone who can create their own shot?  You can't script every basket. I guess we have a couple guys who can get into the lane and jump stop but we just seem so unathletic.  And our athletic guys are just so unskilled.

[kso_FAN]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

I am confused in what I am supposed to be looking at or for.  I cannot figure out what he wants out of his bigs.  Where are their shots supposed to come from on the court?  They seem to enjoy shooting 12-15 footers.

And overall, the entire team lacked physicality. Which isn't a comparison to frank.

I'm not sure he knows completely either. And that's not an indictment. I remember some of Hugg's early season games and even Franks first year. Clearly by playing 11 guys at least 9 minutes and only 3 more than 26 he is still trying to figure out what to do with his line up, let alone how each guy fits in his offense. Gip was the only big that really tried to attack aggressively in the post, the rest seem content with jump shots. We've got to be able to generate shots in the paint by other ways than just oboards.

[Dugout DickStone]

Is he going to phase Will out?

[kso_FAN]

Is he going to phase Will out?

No. He played 36 minutes. He didn't play well tonight, but I agree with MIR, at least he was trying to attack and get shots.

[catzacker]

I couldn't tell what it was oscar was trying to do.

I am confused in what I am supposed to be looking at or for.  I cannot figure out what he wants out of his bigs.  Where are their shots supposed to come from on the court?  They seem to enjoy shooting 12-15 footers.

And overall, the entire team lacked physicality. Which isn't a comparison to frank.

I'm not sure he knows completely either. And that's not an indictment. I remember some of Hugg's early season games and even Franks first year. Clearly by playing 11 guys at least 9 minutes and only 3 more than 26 he is still trying to figure out what to do with his line up, let alone how each guy fits in his offense. Gip was the only big that really tried to attack aggressively in the post, the rest seem content with jump shots. We've got to be able to generate shots in the paint by other ways than just oboards.

yeah, it's just that I'm used to seeing a freaking scrum around the rim and too many times I saw one shot go up and 4-5 yellow jersies.  I dunno.  Used to seeing more aggressiveness.  I'm not sure I'm going to buy the "weber's offense" thing.  we changed to the pinch post or whatever pretty damn quick (albeit with a 4yr starting senior guard who is the program's all time leading scorer).  and how does a coach with that much experience not know how to use his bigs? 

[Cire]

We had no more than one or two guys going after oboards all night.  If we don't shoot well we've got to oboard to stay in games.

[michigancat]

I couldn't watch the game. Do we look weaker this year? It sounds like we miss Greenawaldt, probably more than Frank.

[Cire]

Yes

[Dr Rick Daris]

making sweeping judgements based on one game with a new coaching staff against a top ten team early in the season is pretty silly, but oscar teams historically probably attack the rim less then we are used to seeing both from an overall offensive philosophy and offensive rebounding standpoint.

hard to tell if todays game is a sign of things to come or not. it is something to be watched from here on out though with todays game being a possible warning sign i guess.

todays game actually reminded me of previous early season frank games from an offensive standpoint though. will be interesting to see if they can focus on what works and what doesn't as the season goes on. frank teams seemed to be pretty good at that.

[wetwillie]

making sweeping judgements based on one game with a new coaching staff against a top ten team early in the season is pretty silly, but oscar teams historically probably attack the rim less then we are used to seeing both from an overall offensive philosophy and offensive rebounding standpoint.

hard to tell if todays game is a sign of things to come or not. it is something to be watched from here on out though with todays game being a possible warning sign i guess.

todays game actually reminded me of previous early season frank games from an offensive standpoint though. will be interesting to see if they can focus on what works and what doesn't as the season goes on. frank teams seemed to be pretty good at that.

sometimes i wonder why i even bother reading any other posts but yours.

[MakeItRain]

Am I overstating the talking point that we just don't have anyone who can create their own shot?  You can't script every basket. I guess we have a couple guys who can get into the lane and jump stop but we just seem so unathletic.  And our athletic guys are just so unskilled.

Pretty solid assessment imo.  It really hasn't been much different than years past, I mean the players aren't different.  We have two guys who can create their own shot and I think a slow pace exacerbates this.  It's exactly why it is important to JYC it up with these types of players, we need to create scoring from OR% and FTr.

[Mixed-Nutz]

We have been thriving on creating offense off ball screens this year, Mich took that away and we really stalled. Late in the second half we really started to spread the floor with better spacing, this allowed us to score at the rim and gave Gruds room to attack the mid range. We are still at least 2 weeks from having a solid offense and oscar won't add sets until the second half of the season.

 One more thing we have issues with is setting our feet after curling on screens for open shoots.

[Trim]

I hope this is basketbally enough for this thread.

He coaches with his arms crossed shuffling up and down the sideline

He's on the court when we're on D, like toeing the 3-point line.  Why doesn't the other team's players dribble right into him and get him in troubs? 

[MakeItRain]

I couldn't watch the game. Do we look weaker this year? It sounds like we miss Greenawaldt, probably more than Frank.

I don't think we have enough evidence to make this assessment.  We were out toughed today but that certainly didn't equate to strength, Michigan has no real visible physical strength.

[Dr Rick Daris]

I hope this is basketbally enough for this thread.

He coaches with his arms crossed shuffling up and down the sideline

He's on the court when we're on D, like toeing the 3-point line.  Why doesn't the other team's players dribble right into him and get him in troubs?

if this bothers you now then just wait. he'll do it on offense a lot also. if we are winning then it's great, if not...