This Team Is Better Than The 1998 Team

[TheFormerKCCat]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

[steve dave]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

[Ira Hayes]

Deffense was, iirc:

Beisel
Fatafehi?
other DT?
Howard
Simoneau
Kelly
Ochs
Butler
Cooper
Chapman
Carter

Pretty much as I suspected. Who from '12 sneaks into that starting 11? Arthur? Ty? Meshak? Ira, I'm not sure on what planet this year's DBs are better than Coop, Chap, Butler & Carter (didn't we also have Neasman or somebody in nickle situations?).

IMHO, no unit of the '12 defense is better than the '98 defense. That year's D was definitely vintage 

Nobody threw the ball in '98 like they do now.  I probably shouldn't have said "landslide" but this year's db's did a very good job.

[Unruly]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

Yeah, but if you put lockett and harper with bish. Not even close.

[MadCat]

Does Cooper fit the 'Safeties getting suckier the longer they play at KSU' theory?

[TheFormerKCCat]

Zim plays ahead of either coop or chapman.

Conceded (but Chap had more athletic talent than Ty).

nigel ahead of either butler or carter.

Nope. I'd put Nigel ahead of Dyshod but not Jerametrius "Jerry." Butler had a decent NFL career, IIRC.

I think you are too high on them because they beat up on a lot of really bad teams. also, as ira noted, they didn't play a single team that threw the ball well (until Purdue who whooped their ass).

I don't (nor should anybody) hold Purdue against the '98 Defense. It just wouldn't be fair.  Throwing out Purdue, I'd like to see some data on our Pass Defense from '98 vs. '12 to confirm or persuade my opinions.

[steve dave]

you can't throw games out 

[TheFormerKCCat]

Does Cooper fit the 'Safeties getting suckier the longer they play at KSU' theory?

For Ty Zimmerman's sake, I sure hope this trend is a thing of the past (graduated w/Tysyn Hartman?)

[Ira Hayes]

I don't want to stain a legacy, but you should understand why the '98 defense is considered to be so great. In the first 9 games KSU gave up:

0
7
7
7
9
20
7
6
6

The hype was at an all time high and Nebraska was coming to town. (if you were 40 years old in 1998, you might have remembered one time KSU beat NU back when you were 10 in 1968)

K-State won. People were elated. The '98 team and Bishop were Gods and life was complete.

But in the last four games, against the hardest part of their schedule (other than Texas), they gave up:
30
25
36
37

[Skipper44]

Does Cooper fit the 'Safeties getting suckier the longer they play at KSU' theory?

For Ty Zimmerman's sake, I sure hope this trend is a thing of the past (graduated w/Tysyn Hartman?)

Mike Leach's arrival in the Big 12 in 1999 had a ton to due with Coop's downfall. 

[Ira Hayes]

Does Cooper fit the 'Safeties getting suckier the longer they play at KSU' theory?

For Ty Zimmerman's sake, I sure hope this trend is a thing of the past (graduated w/Tysyn Hartman?)

Mike Leach's arrival in the Big 12 in 1999 had a ton to due with Coop's downfall.

True. And Coop's downfall should also be blamed on coaching and not on Coop.

[Willesgirl]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

The '98 Lockett was NOT Aaron. It was Daddy Lockett, Kevin. 

[ben ji]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

The '98 Lockett was NOT Aaron. It was Daddy Lockett, Kevin. 

Please leave and never come back.

TIA
-Everyone

[Willesgirl]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

The '98 Lockett was NOT Aaron. It was Daddy Lockett, Kevin. 

Please leave and never come back.

TIA
-Everyone

Nope.

[8manpick]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

The '98 Lockett was NOT Aaron. It was Daddy Lockett, Kevin. 

Okay, cool.  The Chiefs drafted Kevin in 1997, so this means the Chiefs should be able to draft a QB with a couple years of eligibility left this year.  Should we go for Manziel or maybe Tajh Boyd if he doesn't declare early?

[Ira Hayes]

Offense Was, iirc:

McDonald
Swift
11th biggest line in all of football including NFL or whatever
Bish
Goolsby
Hickson or Lawrence or Charles or whatever pud
Lockett

RBs = I'd give '98 a slight edge. Hickson & Lawrence were a solid tandem. Charles (I remember watching him go out on a stretcher in Columbia) was even better until he got hurt.

WRs = I think it's a push. I mean, McDonald & Lockett (size and speed) vs. Harp & Lockett (size & elusiveness/big plays). We had more deep passes/big plays in '98, IIRC (I'm sure somebody has the data on this).

Wasn't David Allen already our KR/PR in '98? That was one scary and complete team. So sad we (Bishop) fumbled it all away ... 

the '98 RBs were complete puds. good grief. Harper is better than McDonald and TLBL is better than A. Lockett. On top of that, Thompson is better than Peries or whoever you throw out as the third option.

The '98 Lockett was NOT Aaron. It was Daddy Lockett, Kevin. 

Please leave and never come back.

TIA
-Everyone

Nope.

Good. Stay. Learn.

That '96 team in Daddy Lockett's senior year set the precedent for huge KSU bowl crowds getting let down with a loss.

eff you, Steve Sarkisian.

[Willesgirl]

Should've wiki'ed. I thought K. Lockett graduated in '98. Apologies, all!

[SleepFighter]

Frank Murphy was Bryce Brown before Bryce Brown was Bryce Brown.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

  at the lockett mix up

Frank Murphy > Bryce Brown

[Willesgirl]

at the lockett mix up

Frank Murphy > Bryce Brown

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a jackass. And agree on the Frank Murphy bit.

[chum1]

at the lockett mix up

Frank Murphy > Bryce Brown

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a jackass. And agree on the Frank Murphy bit.

Now is a good time to insult them for being old enough to remember.

[Stevesie60]

Fun fact: In the 1999 NFL draft, our first player taken was taken at #80. That was Gramatica. Our first payer taken from offense or defense was taken at #198.

[8manpick]

Fun fact: In the 1999 NFL draft, our first player taken was taken at #80. That was Gramatica. Our first payer taken from offense or defense was taken at #198.

Jakesie with a truth bomb

[hemmy]

, I'm not sure on what planet this year's DBs are better than Coop, Chap, Butler & Carter (didn't we also have Neasman or somebody in nickle situations?).

Zim plays ahead of either coop or chapman. nigel ahead of either butler or carter. I think you are too high on them because they beat up on a lot of really bad teams. also, as ira noted, they didn't play a single team that threw the ball well (until Purdue who whooped their ass). Neasman was also very meh.

Purdue scored a lot of points but the defense played fine. 90% of it was the offenses fault.

[hemmy]