where did the "right" lose its way?

[8manpick]

pro-economics may be more accurate. i'm not an expert but it seems that every econ class i took seemed to encourage lower taxes as the way to promote economic growth, and that government spending was generally thought of as a <1.0 return on investment.

I'm guessing that would be different at a more liberal institution than K-State.

i don't totally disagree with you, but what i'm referring to are very widely accepted economic principles. formulas, graphs that you have to draw on tests over and over, that kind of thing.

Yeah, that was purely a guess on my part, and not a judgement on the economic theory.  Just in the sense that some people believe higher taxes are the way to go, I would assume there are people teaching that at some schools.

[Panjandrum]

If the right would abandon their anti-science, anti-social-liberalization and pro-militarization stances they would basically have a showdown with the left over fiscal policy. they wouldn't even have to fully abandon their military stances, just soften them. it's not like Obama is really taking the wheel on that. isn't this what every intelligent conservative wants? why doesn't it happen?

Outnumbered

Sure, but just by morons. And you are going to pick up a lot of moderates from the left as you go.  Like I said, you're going to take your lumps in hick states but eventually it's the only way. You keep pandering to the morons and that's what you become.

And how many electoral votes are there in hick states, anyway?  KK?  Has anyone done the math on this?

Seems like if the middle right could take Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, etc., along with a lot of other states like Missouri, they'd do pretty well more often than not.

['taterblast]

yes to everything above. i think there's a ton of people that would go for a moderate republic platform as steve dave illustrated. what has happened, imho, is that Joe Montgomery and the batshits have scared all of those people to the left. So much so, that these people now claim themselves as officially Liberal because of how far they want to disassociate themselves with the embarrassing Right.

I donated to Obama specifically to keep Sarah Palin as far away from the Oval Office as humanly possible.

see?!?!?

[Panjandrum]

Side note...the Republicans need to do something because when Texas flips (and it eventually will), they're screwed.

So, yeah, the clock is ticking.

[wetwillie]

Maybe what we need is the death of the republican party and the emergence of something similar to what SD describes to take its place, isn't that feasible in our lifetimes?

[Panjandrum]

Maybe what we need is the death of the republican party and the emergence of something similar to what SD describes to take its place, isn't that feasible in our lifetimes?

I'd have to think it's inevitable, and the side show that has been their presidential tickets the last two general elections has to be an indicator that we've reached the death knell.

[Skipper44]

Maybe what we need is the death of the republican party and the emergence of something similar to what SD describes to take its place, isn't that feasible in our lifetimes?

this is what it will take. GOP at the grass roots level is far right because only the fundie wackjobs vote in primaries at the lower levels

[EMAWmeister]

Maybe what we need is the death of the republican party and the emergence of something similar to what SD describes to take its place, isn't that feasible in our lifetimes?

Maybe what we need is the death of partisan politics as we know it and have both sides take a more moderate approach?

[michigancat]

I think it's feasible for things to change quickly. Look how quickly gay marriage opinion changed.

[steve dave]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

[EMAWmeister]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

[steve dave]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

[Dugout DickStone]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Exactly.  The minute they start losing sway/$$ they somehow get it corrected from Vatican.

['taterblast]

what sucks is that romney ran a pretty moderate platform while he was in mass.

[EMAWmeister]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

[Dugout DickStone]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

Birth control

[8manpick]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

Women working

[TheHamburglar]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

Birth control

When did this happen...the Catholic population softened their stance alot, but not the church...Also, this is why the evangelical/baptist bloc will be alot harder to overcome than the Catholic voting bloc.  I know alot of Catholics who really don't care about the legality of gay marriage despite the official church stance.  The evangelicals will be alot harder to overcome on the gay rights issue than the catholics will be. 

[steve dave]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

slavery
women's suffrage (except in vatican city where women still can't vote, lol)

[michigancat]

catholics don't matter (relative to steve dave's original point)

[steve dave]

catholics don't matter (relative to steve dave's original point)

correct

[TheHamburglar]

catholics don't matter (relative to steve dave's original point)

Yeah, you can't target the catholics as a whole.   The individual's in the church will vote however they want to vote.  Of all the organized religions, the view of the church has the lowest impact on their congregation's voting. 

[EMAWmeister]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

Birth control

This didn't happen.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Yep, why can't the GOP just alter their positions and let the radicals leave? Seems much easier than starting over. I mean, as an example, it's clear that gay rights are the civil rights issue of our day. Smart members of the right know this. They can change their stance on this whenever they want. The hick states can vote some out of office but eventually it's going to be a 100% thing (except in the deep south). Religions will alter their stance on it as well (some already have). They've changed thousands of times in the past to adjust for the times and this item is no different. If nothing else, look into the history books at every civil rights vote ever, and decide where you want to be written about.

As someone who grew up in the catholic church/schools that also supports gay marriage, good rough ridin' luck.

the catholic church has changed their stance on tons of stuff in the past. they inevitably will on this as well.

Maybe I'm just drawing a blank here, but when did the Catholic church change their minds on a social issue as big as gay marriage/abortion?

They used to execute scientists and all non-catholics, and they changed their stance on that.

[Rage Against the McKee]

yes to everything above. i think there's a ton of people that would go for a moderate republic platform as steve dave illustrated. what has happened, imho, is that Joe Montgomery and the batshits have scared all of those people to the left. So much so, that these people now claim themselves as officially Liberal because of how far they want to disassociate themselves with the embarrassing Right.

This is very true. I'm still a registered republican, but I simply cannot vote for any of the dingbats who keep getting through the primaries.