Author Topic: Aurora Shooting  (Read 64691 times)

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Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #150 on: July 25, 2012, 05:53:33 PM »
I am in Colorado and I don't see too many people I'd want packing heat everywhere they went.

I assume there are states where there are CC laws and we can look at stats that these people are probably not popping off shots all over town so I am not really opposed to them but to think they'd really lessen the death toll when someone like Jerry the Joker from losing his crap is not reality.

I think permits to carry should take a lot of effort to get and be really expensive though.  Rich people are just more responsible.

Colorado allows CC permits, the problem is the movie theatre was designated as a gun-free zone. Those places where firearms are permissible/non-permissible needs to be vetted more thoroughly.

Seems like every private business has the right to have that policy. 

Offline Lemonrock

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #151 on: July 25, 2012, 05:57:38 PM »
Nice evasion, I take from your comments that everyone should be able to arm without regulation. B/c you can't regulate against insanity, then you must let the sane choose whether they arm or not.

I do feel bad, this bad person had bigger plans with bringing down a building with innocent people as well to distract authorities as he got away. The violence displayed in this act should dealt with the most harsh penalties and I believe there should be more than just the shooter punished. Someone else knew he was at the very least capable of this, if not then what the eff is the agency known as Homeland Security cashing checks for?

You don't seem to be the best at reading.  Current policy is to not let the known insane arm.  Current policy is to not let everyone arm. I am saying that you shouldn't take it away and that it shouldn't be more open.  Reasonable control is what is best.  Reason is what is missing from people who want it all or nothing in either direction.
You can keep talking in circles and hopefully bad people don't do bad things to you. Here is your problem you wouldn't use your gun if you had it on you, to protect INNOCENT lives. But you will shoot the crap out of Bambi for fun and 12 turkeys just to have your mom buy from the store on Thanksgiving. Maybe you hit someone fleeing, but you hit the assailant hopefully stunning him, at the ver least confusing him. Maybe he leaves, maybe he aims at you at not the 10 or however many people are closer than you. You grew up with guns but still don't understand them.
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Offline shivvyman

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #152 on: July 25, 2012, 06:03:41 PM »
I am in Colorado and I don't see too many people I'd want packing heat everywhere they went.

I assume there are states where there are CC laws and we can look at stats that these people are probably not popping off shots all over town so I am not really opposed to them but to think they'd really lessen the death toll when someone like Jerry the Joker from losing his crap is not reality.

I think permits to carry should take a lot of effort to get and be really expensive though.  Rich people are just more responsible.

Colorado allows CC permits, the problem is the movie theatre was designated as a gun-free zone. Those places where firearms are permissible/non-permissible needs to be vetted more thoroughly.

Seems like every private business has the right to have that policy.

True, yet we should expect these businesses to keep our safety in mind should they set this policy. Any venue that hosts a large group of people needs to provide security or allow its patrons to protect themselves.

Sporting events, concerns, clubs, etc. all do not allow firearms, but all provide security. Granted, the security isn't top notch at many places, but it is provided.

Offline hemmy

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #153 on: July 25, 2012, 06:32:21 PM »
Gun laws are pointless. The person committing the crime is not following the law of murder, why would they care about a gun law?

Offline Dugout DickStone

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #154 on: July 25, 2012, 06:32:54 PM »
Bordering on Dome time....

Offline Pete

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #155 on: July 25, 2012, 06:35:07 PM »
Bordering on Dome time....

Weapons hot, Limestone....you are cleared....

Offline CNS

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Re: Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #156 on: July 25, 2012, 06:39:01 PM »
Nice evasion, I take from your comments that everyone should be able to arm without regulation. B/c you can't regulate against insanity, then you must let the sane choose whether they arm or not.

I do feel bad, this bad person had bigger plans with bringing down a building with innocent people as well to distract authorities as he got away. The violence displayed in this act should dealt with the most harsh penalties and I believe there should be more than just the shooter punished. Someone else knew he was at the very least capable of this, if not then what the eff is the agency known as Homeland Security cashing checks for?

You don't seem to be the best at reading.  Current policy is to not let the known insane arm.  Current policy is to not let everyone arm. I am saying that you shouldn't take it away and that it shouldn't be more open.  Reasonable control is what is best.  Reason is what is missing from people who want it all or nothing in either direction.
You can keep talking in circles and hopefully bad people don't do bad things to you. Here is your problem you wouldn't use your gun if you had it on you, to protect INNOCENT lives. But you will shoot the crap out of Bambi for fun and 12 turkeys just to have your mom buy from the store on Thanksgiving. Maybe you hit someone fleeing, but you hit the assailant hopefully stunning him, at the ver least confusing him. Maybe he leaves, maybe he aims at you at not the 10 or however many people are closer than you. You grew up with guns but still don't understand them.

Lol.  Wut?

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Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #157 on: July 25, 2012, 06:54:10 PM »
This thread got Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) in a hurry.

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #158 on: July 25, 2012, 07:12:51 PM »
This instance is yet another point in favor of allowing citizens to carry firearms anywhere they please.

As Chuck Michel says: "If 5% of the ducks could shoot back, you're not going to go duck hunting."

While I agree with the idea that we should be able to carry in more places, this guy was a lunatic and he was going to do that regardless.  A private citizen might have mitigated some of it, but it still would have happened.

Exactly, this dude was planning on getting shot at. He was armored to the point where any carry gun a person would be likely to have would be ineffective. Of course, he may have pissed himself and ran the instant someone started shooting back.

The armor was just to prevent himself from being killed.   This isn't some hollywood movie where the dude just keeps firing.  Someone takes a slug from a .45, even with body armor, they're going to be on the ground with the wind knocked out of them.  2 minutes response time from the cops, when someone in the crowd could have put one in him within 45 seconds.   Could have saved MANY of those people. 
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Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #159 on: July 25, 2012, 07:15:45 PM »
LOL at the thought of half the people I know who own a gun being able to hit the guy half a theater away through smoke, fear, chaos, and panic.

The only thing that would have helped is if a cop, FBI, etc type was in the audience and packing. 

Your neighbor who deer hunts would have been killed as soon as he peeled off and missed 3 rounds in rapid succession and drew the lunatic's attention.

We don't need more retards carrying guns to the movies.  Most of them can't work their cellphone in the dark.

Cops are given 1 box of shells each month to target practice with.  Several of them rarely ever target practice.  Those same lunatic jack asses carrying are practicing every night for scenarios exactly like this. 

What I'd like you to answer is, why was this guy able to do this?  The movie theatre clearly had signs in the entrance that said "NO GUNS"  Perhaps they should put up a sign that reads "NO MURDERING PEOPLE"   Think that would help?  :dunno:
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Offline DQ12

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #160 on: July 25, 2012, 07:22:04 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction. 


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Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #161 on: July 25, 2012, 07:41:31 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

You should vacation to Montana or Wyoming, then form an informed an opinion.

Offline DQ12

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #162 on: July 25, 2012, 07:43:57 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

You should vacation to Montana or Wyoming, then form an informed an opinion.
Not a bad idea.  Those places are good cross-sections of our society.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 07:56:12 PM by Dlew12 »


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Offline AppleJack

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #163 on: July 25, 2012, 07:45:17 PM »
What if everyone was forced to carry a gun? I think that would be a neat experiment.
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Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #164 on: July 25, 2012, 07:51:50 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

You should vacation to Montana or Wyoming, then form an informed an opinion.
Not a bad idea.  Those places are good cross-sections of our society.

Well they're just the other side.  For every Chicago or Baltimore there is a Helena, MT or a Cody, WY.  IMO, KS/Kansas City are a good middle ground between those two cultures.  I will say I've never felt unsafe when I vacation up there, aside from maybe unintentionally (or intentionally) insulting some bar patron.  Those are places where you can still get decked and they don't call the cops.  Just take your licks and GTFO.

Anyway, people up there carry for different reasons than someone in Aurora would.  I'm not saying it's safer up there because people carry guns; but it's probably safer because there aren't crazy people like in high density population areas.

Offline Pete

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Aurora Shooting
« Reply #165 on: July 25, 2012, 08:08:57 PM »
Wait, aren't Chicago and Baltimore like 1000x bigger than the little places you mention? :dunno:

Offline EMAWmeister

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #166 on: July 25, 2012, 08:10:44 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

You should vacation to Montana or Wyoming, then form an informed an opinion.
Not a bad idea.  Those places are good cross-sections of our society.

Well they're just the other side.  For every Chicago or Baltimore there is a Helena, MT or a Cody, WY.  IMO, KS/Kansas City are a good middle ground between those two cultures.  I will say I've never felt unsafe when I vacation up there, aside from maybe unintentionally (or intentionally) insulting some bar patron.  Those are places where you can still get decked and they don't call the cops.  Just take your licks and GTFO.

Anyway, people up there carry for different reasons than someone in Aurora would.  I'm not saying it's safer up there because people carry guns; but it's probably safer because there aren't crazy people like in high density population areas.

What the eff are you even talking about?

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #167 on: July 25, 2012, 08:11:44 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

On the contrary, I agree with you totally. I think what's important is to look at the individual committing these crimes and understand no one dedicates that much effort into anything without feeling justified in their actions. Whether it's someone with no emotional connection, feeling trapped in poverty and oppressed by a war on drugs, or has identified an enemy based on foreign policy & occupation of their country. Regardless of what anyone believes, perception becomes their reality. We all effect perception but rarely will anyone accept responsibility when blow-back explodes in our face. We create terrorism, gang violence, & violent rampages then externalize it by placing blame solely on the logical target, then communicate our hatred & sometimes irrational response by assigning labels to these targets. It's not important what happens to this James Holmes dude, what's important is how we move forward - and assuring we don't create another "mentally ill" James Holmes, or "thug" or "terrorist".

The problem then lies with how realistic it is for society to change their attitude towards this type of behavior and prevent people like this from getting to this stage.  It's rather utopian - and I don't think we'll ever get there.   The logical alternative seems to allow people to defend themselves how they see fit.  I don't trust a police officer, FBI agent, or military dude to protect my family any better than myself; I think I have a right to not rely on anyone else for my protection. 
Good is better than Evil because it's nicer.

Offline Pete

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Aurora Shooting
« Reply #168 on: July 25, 2012, 08:14:08 PM »
Also, I have traveled extensively to high density urban areas, and everyone I work with has as well.  I have never, ever, heard of a circumstance where anyone needed a gun.  Never.  I put the population size of my sample at around 500 people, and all are extensive travelers (over 100+ nights a year).


Offline Emo EMAW

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #169 on: July 25, 2012, 08:14:44 PM »
Let's cut through the bullshit, okay?  If some one in the crowd had a gun and was accurate and willing to shoot then yes, it would have been a good thing that night.  Some people would have been saved.  I wish there was some one in that particular theater who had a gun.  Anyone arguing otherwise is kidding themselves.

The issue, though, is that a culture wherein people habitually carry around guns to movie theaters and churches and college campuses and wherever a mass murder might next occur is probably more dangerous and definitely makes people (myself included) uneasy.  I'm trying to imagine how that society might look, and I'm sure people like Heinballz and myself have two very different visions.

In my opinion I think it's extremely unhealthy for a society that encourages a sort of day-to-day individual quasi-brinksmanship/mutually assured destruction.

You should vacation to Montana or Wyoming, then form an informed an opinion.
Not a bad idea.  Those places are good cross-sections of our society.

Well they're just the other side.  For every Chicago or Baltimore there is a Helena, MT or a Cody, WY.  IMO, KS/Kansas City are a good middle ground between those two cultures.  I will say I've never felt unsafe when I vacation up there, aside from maybe unintentionally (or intentionally) insulting some bar patron.  Those are places where you can still get decked and they don't call the cops.  Just take your licks and GTFO.

Anyway, people up there carry for different reasons than someone in Aurora would.  I'm not saying it's safer up there because people carry guns; but it's probably safer because there aren't crazy people like in high density population areas.

What the eff are you even talking about?

I'm saying the guy walking around the Wal-Mart in Cody Wyoming with a .357 on his hip isn't worried about some psycho shooting up the place.

Offline Pete

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #170 on: July 25, 2012, 08:21:02 PM »
A guy walking around in Cody Wyoming with a .357 on his hip is almost certainly a HUGE nut job.

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #171 on: July 25, 2012, 08:23:35 PM »
The "we should all carry guns" argument is so Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and over blown. Cool, so anytime someone gets in a argument, they just wip out their pistol, and end it.  :flush:

Offline Paul Moscow

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #172 on: July 25, 2012, 08:26:56 PM »
This thread got Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) in a hurry. hemmy.

Offline Fedor

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #173 on: July 25, 2012, 08:27:31 PM »
A guy walking around in Cody Wyoming with a .357 on his hip is almost certainly a HUGE nut job.
Judge much?  Wyoming is full of rattlesnakes.
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Offline Trim

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Re: Aurora Shooting
« Reply #174 on: July 25, 2012, 08:30:23 PM »
I've probably forgotten how to shoot my little handgun.  Maybe I'll stop the shooting range after hoops sunday and see if I can figure it out.

Thinking about being 1/4 asleep and laid back with a pack of twizzlers on my lap last night at batman, I definitely wouldn't have been able to crap had some tard started tear gassing and machine gunning at everyone, even if I had my gun in my cargo short pockets.