Author Topic: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?  (Read 26219 times)

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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #125 on: July 03, 2012, 10:00:19 PM »
Uh oh, Trim.

Quote
Since the law was approved in 2006, Massachusetts residents are more likely to have a place they usually go when they are sick or need advice (up 4.7 percent), more likely to have had a preventive care visit (up 5.9 percent), more likely to have had multiple doctor visits (up 5 percent) and more likely to have had a dental visit (up 5 percent), the Blue Cross Blue Shield report found.

I got really upset today when I saw that Monday would've been the perfect day for you to come watch court with me in Abilene and Manhattan except that there's one particular case in Wichita I can't delegate away or continue.

I don't doubt there are people like the people you're talking about. But those stats are pretty cool. I mean, we have this state that pretty much already implemented Obamacare, and it's working. People who didn't have health insurance before are using it. IT'S WORKING, TRIM!! IT'S EFFING WORKING!!!

That being said, I'll still go to court with you sometime.

I think implementing on the state level is fantastic. They can be much more reactive to the needs of their particular residents needs. It would also add an element of competition between the states to see who had the best system (cost vs level of service) to draw business to the state. If you have a problem with your states health care, or lack there of, you can start looking at relocating. Everyone would win.

Federal programs suck. All of them.

I'm all for that. Tell your people to draw up a plan and give it to Romney. I'd vote for that. But right now it's Obama's plan vs. what we have now. And with those two options, I'll take Obama's plan.

Once Obamacare is fully implemented, there will be no Mass Health, or whatever they call it. There will be no more choice. If you don't like what you get, oh well. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Offline 06wildcat

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #126 on: July 04, 2012, 09:23:36 AM »
Uh oh, Trim.

Quote
Since the law was approved in 2006, Massachusetts residents are more likely to have a place they usually go when they are sick or need advice (up 4.7 percent), more likely to have had a preventive care visit (up 5.9 percent), more likely to have had multiple doctor visits (up 5 percent) and more likely to have had a dental visit (up 5 percent), the Blue Cross Blue Shield report found.

I got really upset today when I saw that Monday would've been the perfect day for you to come watch court with me in Abilene and Manhattan except that there's one particular case in Wichita I can't delegate away or continue.

I don't doubt there are people like the people you're talking about. But those stats are pretty cool. I mean, we have this state that pretty much already implemented Obamacare, and it's working. People who didn't have health insurance before are using it. IT'S WORKING, TRIM!! IT'S EFFING WORKING!!!

That being said, I'll still go to court with you sometime.

I think implementing on the state level is fantastic. They can be much more reactive to the needs of their particular residents needs. It would also add an element of competition between the states to see who had the best system (cost vs level of service) to draw business to the state. If you have a problem with your states health care, or lack there of, you can start looking at relocating. Everyone would win.

Federal programs suck. All of them.

I'm all for that. Tell your people to draw up a plan and give it to Romney. I'd vote for that. But right now it's Obama's plan vs. what we have now. And with those two options, I'll take Obama's plan.

Once Obamacare is fully implemented, there will be no Mass Health, or whatever they call it. There will be no more choice. If you don't like what you get, oh well. Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

 :facepalm:

The ACA actually encourages states to pursue their own solutions. States are free to design plans that meet the basic criteria set forth in the ACA, so say Kansas decided to do its own thing that didn't involve an individual mandate, but still covered pre-existing conditions, set up an exchange etc. The feds would review that plan to determine if it meets the criteria. If it does, Kansas now has a different system than other states.

This is why Vermont is toying with a single-payer system. In theory, with ACA, it should be much, much easier for states to change how health care is delivered. Unless, of course, you've got a fundie governor who will stamp his feet and pout because he didn't get his way.

Offline Cire

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #127 on: July 04, 2012, 10:21:54 AM »
lol

Offline HeinBallz

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Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #128 on: July 04, 2012, 06:16:40 PM »
'been out of town, but I can't wait for the first thread talking about some government study in regards to the health industry and how doctors are lazy and underpaid - and the only reason they got into the industry is for the 3 month vacation during the summers. Excited for the upcoming threads on "let's fix the medical industry by providing vouchers so everyone can afford the private sector".

#teamFSD


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Offline HeinBallz

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Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #129 on: July 04, 2012, 06:31:49 PM »
I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

i know 4 people very well that live in canada.  two in their late 20's and 2 in late 40's/early 50's.  none of them have ever had a problem seeing a doctor when they need too.  the two that have needed surgeries received them much quicker than they would have been able to in the US.  my mom, who is a director in a hospital, went up to winnipeg about 3 months ago because the guy she is involved with was having surgery, and she was amazed at how easy, simple, and fast the whole experience was.

i have asked him about this issue and he jokingly laughs and calls the 2-6 month wait to see doctors  "bullshit propaganda".

I've got a great idea, let's get the Canadian government to run our healthcare.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #130 on: July 04, 2012, 06:39:49 PM »
I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

i know 4 people very well that live in canada.  two in their late 20's and 2 in late 40's/early 50's.  none of them have ever had a problem seeing a doctor when they need too.  the two that have needed surgeries received them much quicker than they would have been able to in the US.  my mom, who is a director in a hospital, went up to winnipeg about 3 months ago because the guy she is involved with was having surgery, and she was amazed at how easy, simple, and fast the whole experience was.

i have asked him about this issue and he jokingly laughs and calls the 2-6 month wait to see doctors  "bullshit propaganda".

I've got a great idea, let's get the Canadian government to run our healthcare.


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #131 on: July 05, 2012, 08:13:59 AM »
'been out of town, but I can't wait for the first thread talking about some government study in regards to the health industry and how doctors are lazy and underpaid - and the only reason they got into the industry is for the 3 month vacation during the summers. Excited for the upcoming threads on "let's fix the medical industry by providing vouchers so everyone can afford the private sector".

#teamFSD


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This is ridiculous, but it's not really any more ridiculous than being charged $8 for a single tylenol pill and $25 for a box of tissues during a hospital stay.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #132 on: July 05, 2012, 08:28:49 AM »
'been out of town, but I can't wait for the first thread talking about some government study in regards to the health industry and how doctors are lazy and underpaid - and the only reason they got into the industry is for the 3 month vacation during the summers. Excited for the upcoming threads on "let's fix the medical industry by providing vouchers so everyone can afford the private sector".

#teamFSD


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This is ridiculous, but it's not really any more ridiculous than being charged $8 for a single tylenol pill and $25 for a box of tissues during a hospital stay.

Link?

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #133 on: July 05, 2012, 08:51:38 AM »
'been out of town, but I can't wait for the first thread talking about some government study in regards to the health industry and how doctors are lazy and underpaid - and the only reason they got into the industry is for the 3 month vacation during the summers. Excited for the upcoming threads on "let's fix the medical industry by providing vouchers so everyone can afford the private sector".

#teamFSD


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This is ridiculous, but it's not really any more ridiculous than being charged $8 for a single tylenol pill and $25 for a box of tissues during a hospital stay.

Link?

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/may/01/observational-care.aspx

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #134 on: July 05, 2012, 09:04:30 AM »
'been out of town, but I can't wait for the first thread talking about some government study in regards to the health industry and how doctors are lazy and underpaid - and the only reason they got into the industry is for the 3 month vacation during the summers. Excited for the upcoming threads on "let's fix the medical industry by providing vouchers so everyone can afford the private sector".

#teamFSD


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This is ridiculous, but it's not really any more ridiculous than being charged $8 for a single tylenol pill and $25 for a box of tissues during a hospital stay.

Link?

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/may/01/observational-care.aspx

I control-f'd "tissue" and came up empty.

Quote
Zachor, who works as an office manager for the Minnesota Citizens Federation, a consumer advocacy group,

:flush:

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #137 on: July 05, 2012, 09:51:14 AM »
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=127077&page=1#.T_WmT_UwD5M

Hard-hitting stuff there.  I mean, the morning show that today features

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Inside the Casey Anthony Trial
Defense attorney Jose Baez discusses his famous client and behind the scenes details of the high-stakes trial.

‘GMA’ Deals and Steals
Exclusive deals on products made in the USA.

Battle of the Hair Straighteners
We put at-home hair straighteners to the test to see which ones work the best.

has dug deep and found that
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One hospital even used "disposable mucus recovery system" as a name for tissues.
  Enough said.

You know what pisses me off?  When it costs more to eat out than to eat at home.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #138 on: July 05, 2012, 09:52:46 AM »
http://www.ehow.com/info_7826464_do-cant-pay-hospital-bills.html

Quote
Russell Huebsch has written freelance articles covering a range of topics from basketball to politics in print and online publications. He graduated from Baylor University in 2009 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science.

Me too!

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #139 on: July 05, 2012, 09:54:16 AM »
NK, identify a person who's overpaid for tissues or whatever.  I'll pay myself for their time to provide us all the records pertaining to the incident, and we'll see if it's a legit issue or not.  OK? 

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #140 on: July 05, 2012, 10:46:29 AM »
NK, identify a person who's overpaid for tissues or whatever.  I'll pay myself for their time to provide us all the records pertaining to the incident, and we'll see if it's a legit issue or not.  OK?

I don't think anybody actually ends up paying those prices, but don't you think there is something wrong with a system where it's standard practice for hospitals to itemize services like kleenexes, tylenol pills, and bags of ice at rates that are double or triple the actual cost? Why not just charge the actual cost of those items and then bill for the room and staff hours like any other reputable business would? Also, LOL at comparing a hospital stay to eating out.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #141 on: July 05, 2012, 10:51:26 AM »
NK, identify a person who's overpaid for tissues or whatever.  I'll pay myself for their time to provide us all the records pertaining to the incident, and we'll see if it's a legit issue or not.  OK?

I don't think anybody actually ends up paying those prices, but don't you think there is something wrong with a system where it's standard practice for hospitals to itemize services like kleenexes, tylenol pills, and bags of ice at rates that are double or triple the actual cost? Why not just charge the actual cost of those items and then bill for the room and staff hours like any other reputable business would? Also, LOL at comparing a hospital stay to eating out.

Read what a chargemaster is and how they're made along with how overhead costs get paid for in reputable businesses.  And tonight, ask for separate tabs for your meal and your waitress service.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #142 on: July 05, 2012, 10:55:41 AM »
NK, identify a person who's overpaid for tissues or whatever.  I'll pay myself for their time to provide us all the records pertaining to the incident, and we'll see if it's a legit issue or not.  OK?

I don't think anybody actually ends up paying those prices, but don't you think there is something wrong with a system where it's standard practice for hospitals to itemize services like kleenexes, tylenol pills, and bags of ice at rates that are double or triple the actual cost? Why not just charge the actual cost of those items and then bill for the room and staff hours like any other reputable business would? Also, LOL at comparing a hospital stay to eating out.

Read what a chargemaster is and how they're made along with how overhead costs get paid for in reputable businesses.  And tonight, ask for separate tabs for your meal and your waitress service.

You do get separate tabs for your meal and waitress service. There is the bill and the tip.

A hospital is more similar to a hotel than eating out anyway. How many hotels have you stayed in that charge you for the soap, towels, laundry, and kleenexes? They clearly mark the cost of items that do come with a charge, like the liquor.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #143 on: July 05, 2012, 11:07:08 AM »
NK, you and Al Franken can keep coming up with urban myths to bitch about.  Meanwhile, here in the real world, including at the aforementioned court date I'd hoped to lead a field trip to, hospitals are suing people who haven't paid the "reasonable value" for the goods and services.  Why isn't it just the amount billed?  Because, as I'm sure you can appreciate, a creditor can't just declare a price after the fact and that becomes the price.  There's no agreed-upon amount due, so the creditor is only entitled to the reasonable value of what was provided.  Guess what that reasonable value is ALWAYS determined to be?

It's the amount billed, including whatever allegedly exorbitant cost for a tylenol pill you're mad about, because hospitals charge enough to cover costs and overhead, and have a formula (which leads to the chargemaster).  In fact, many hospitals are non-profit entities, meaning they're charging exactly enough and often not enough to cover costs.

If you think you have the data to prove that what hospitals charge is above and beyond the reasonable value of those goods and services, you really ought to figure out a way to become a lawyer or associate with a lawyer that wants to specialize in helping people not pay their medical bills, because so far nobody else has figured it out.

Your messing up the restaurant analogy.  Tipping out the help would only be at a dirty strip club where the girls are independent contractors and receive no money from an establishment.  At a restaurant, your bill for food is paying for the food, the rent, the utilities, the staff, the cost of having a bunch of food on hand that may or may not be eaten, etc.  Kind of like how an emergency room has to keep a shitload of stuff on hand to deal with any number of situations, even though a good chunk of it will never get used.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #144 on: July 05, 2012, 11:13:38 AM »
NK, you and Al Franken can keep coming up with urban myths to bitch about.  Meanwhile, here in the real world, including at the aforementioned court date I'd hoped to lead a field trip to, hospitals are suing people who haven't paid the "reasonable value" for the goods and services.  Why isn't it just the amount billed?  Because, as I'm sure you can appreciate, a creditor can't just declare a price after the fact and that becomes the price.  There's no agreed-upon amount due, so the creditor is only entitled to the reasonable value of what was provided.  Guess what that reasonable value is ALWAYS determined to be?

It's the amount billed, including whatever allegedly exorbitant cost for a tylenol pill you're mad about, because hospitals charge enough to cover costs and overhead, and have a formula (which leads to the chargemaster).  In fact, many hospitals are non-profit entities, meaning they're charging exactly enough and often not enough to cover costs.

If you think you have the data to prove that what hospitals charge is above and beyond the reasonable value of those goods and services, you really ought to figure out a way to become a lawyer or associate with a lawyer that wants to specialize in helping people not pay their medical bills, because so far nobody else has figured it out.

Your messing up the restaurant analogy.  Tipping out the help would only be at a dirty strip club where the girls are independent contractors and receive no money from an establishment.  At a restaurant, your bill for food is paying for the food, the rent, the utilities, the staff, the cost of having a bunch of food on hand that may or may not be eaten, etc.  Kind of like how an emergency room has to keep a shitload of stuff on hand to deal with any number of situations, even though a good chunk of it will never get used.

To me, it's more of a transparency issue than anything. I wouldn't care if hospitals charged thousands of dollars for a box of kleenexes if they were up front about that charge and you could bring your own box. It's not the total on the bill that I have a problem with so much as the methodology they use to arrive at that total.

Offline CNS

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #145 on: July 05, 2012, 11:14:00 AM »
Trim, I want in on the field trip, but really need it to happen on a Sat. 


Offline Cire

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #146 on: July 05, 2012, 11:29:41 AM »
My daughter got ear tubes put in and it cost more than it did to birth her.  I don't know what that means.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #147 on: July 05, 2012, 11:33:22 AM »
To me, it's more of a transparency issue than anything. I wouldn't care if hospitals charged thousands of dollars for a box of kleenexes if they were up front about that charge and you could bring your own box. It's not the total on the bill that I have a problem with so much as the methodology they use to arrive at that total.

Get off of the tissue thing.

When an emergency happens and it's not known what's wrong, people go to the ER and agree that they'll pay for the reasonable value of whatever they're about to get, which is unknown, because the receptionist at the ER has no idea what goods and services are going to be provided.  After the work's done, the hospital sends an itemized bill to the patient, and the patient is certainly entitled to question things and get the basis for the price if they're curious.  It'd be pretty boring, but it's an option. 

More often, the patients I'm talking about blow it off, wait to be sued, sometimes go on the internet and find what they think is magic language questioning the value (with it really being a hope that the other side doesn't want to eff with them and just discounts the bill heavily or lets it go entierely), and eventually the court finds the patient owes the whole bill, even if it includes a $25 tissue.  Because they do.

Responsible people get ball cancer, get a shitload of bills from everywhere, including services that were apparently provided while they were unconscious, and they read them and confirm all is correct and then make arrangements with everyone to pay them.  And all those medical providers are completely fine with letting said uniballer pay them over time so long as it's a fair deal for both in light of a giant expense being unexpectedly dropped on them.

Offline Trim

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #148 on: July 05, 2012, 11:34:40 AM »
Trim, I want in on the field trip, but really need it to happen on a Sat. 

You probably could get more out of watching me work on Saturday when I go to the office for a few hours to be uninterrupted while I read through and beat some of the stupidest crap you could imagine coming from people who don't want to pay for stuff.  I suppose I could ustream the eventual court hearings where victory is declared.

Offline Stupid Fitz

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Re: Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?
« Reply #149 on: July 05, 2012, 12:12:05 PM »
True story:  Mrs. SF had to have a minor procedure a while back (she's fine and thanks for the T's and P's).  The dr office lady called me up and asked me if I wanted to run it all on insurance???  I was like, WTF are you talking about?  She said, "you have awesome insurance so you want to".  I said, WTF are you talking about and she said, never mind, I just wanted to check.  I asked her again why would I not want it to go on my insurance.  Her reply:  " Well, since it is a minor procedure, some people would just pay out of pocket.  I said, why would I want to do that?  She says: "well, if you pay out of pocket the hospital will charge you around $1200, but if you run it through your insurance the hospital and dr will bill them about $8000 and paying the lesser amount yourself puts less towards your maximums".

I am fracking fascinated by this.  I have great insurance so I didn't really give a shazbot!, but it was amazing to me.  I mean, ideally I should have called up my hr person lady and said "hey, I will pay this out of pocket if you reimburse me, it will save you 7 grand".  When it was all cleared I looked and the final payment was 4 grand.