Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?

[sys]

i want in on the sterilization, let kids die team.

[Trim]

welcome to the Pit, trim 

[nicname]

I know there are people like that. Lots of them. But there are also people who legitimately want health insurance but can't afford it.

Those people get charity write-offs from the medical providers (assuming they legitimately want it enough to fill out a form).

True, I once got 4 wisdom teeth removed free of charge because I was in between jobs at the time and not making any money.  Kind of scheming the system, but whatever.

[nicname]

Also, 50% of people who file for bankruptcy file because of medical expenses. So a lot of our taxes are already going to people who can't afford insurance (or refuse to buy it).

It's more than your taxes.  It's the prices you pay, as a responsible person who pays for stuff, for your medical charges and health insurance.

Most people approach the health care debate from the perspective of people who generally keep their lives in order, which isn't a very practical perspective in reality.

A lot of people right now who don't have insurance are not getting medical treatment until they have to go to the ER. Then they can't pay for it, and our insurance charges us for it. If they go when problems first begin, they will be much cheaper than that ER visit. At least I like to think so.

My other point is that as of right now, one out of 8 children are uninsured, and 20% of children are not receiving proper immunizations. They have no control over that, their parents do. Maybe some of them still won't get them them because their parents are being dicks. Who knows. But I would pay double my taxes (WAY over what taxes are estimated to rise, in case you haven't looked) to save a handful of kids' lives. I understand that the money that will be gained won't be spent in the most efficient way, but if only a few kids' lives are saved because of this tax increase, how can you say it's not worth it? What if you knew all the kids, would it be worth it then?

LOLZ if you think the ACA is going to make poor people stop using the ER as a primary care physician or cause them to suddenly give a crap about the well being of their children. If anyone needs a dose of practicality and reality its sheltered morons like you.

The best thing we could do for health care is to start sterilizing imbeciles. Ruth Bader and Sys concur.

 

Also, is this going to be universal healthcare like in canada?  I dunno, as I haven't really been following?

[Stupid Fitz]

I'm with Trim.  I love how people think that now that some people have access to insurance they are going to all of the sudden be healthier and use it properly.  "hey you know what would be fun kids?, lets go out and get some preventative care today!!!!!"

I also can't wait until the first time the gov says they are going to withhold their tax return because they still didn't buy insurance.  That should be the next reality show. 

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

[slobber]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

What is that 22 year old going to do instead?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

Move to rural America. The only doctor who will see you will be some guy that grabs your hand, prays to the lord that everything is all right, and then praises the lord at the end of your checkup because you aren't going to die. This is after you tell him that you only scheduled the appointment because he was the only doctor in the city (pop 35000) who is seeing new patients and that you only wanted a quick checkup so that the next time when you are really sick he might not make you schedule the appointment 2 months in advance like he did this time.

[slobber]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

What is that 22 year old going to do instead?

Law School?

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

What is that 22 year old going to do instead?

Law School?

Those professions seem like they would require different skill sets. I think engineer is more likely, but being a doctor would have to become a lot less lucrative before kids want to be engineers instead of doctors.

[Mr Bread]

I know there are people like that. Lots of them. But there are also people who legitimately want health insurance but can't afford it.

Those people get charity write-offs from the medical providers (assuming they legitimately want it enough to fill out a form).

Are people with pre-existing conditions getting write-offs?

Especially so.

Fair enough. Then how come nobody knows about it? Can we raise taxes to inform everyone of this?

Nope.  Just post up in a hospital lobby and figuratively hold everyone's hand through the process.

There are plenty of people who have looked for ways to decrease their medical bills and did not know this was an option. If the ACA is able to take care of these people, even if they had this option before and were uniformed about it, then I think it's worth paying for. But now I won't be pissed at people who are oppose to the ACA, assuming it's for similar reasons that you're against it.

I'm against the absurdly large number of americans who live their lives in disarray.  I'm not necessarily against the motivation behind the ACA, but I don't think it'll make a difference.  The takeaway for a shitload of people will be "Obama made hospitals free" as they roll into their local ER.

This is precisely what will happen.  They won't change their behavior one iota.  Even if you sat them down and explained it to them plainly and clearly, then gave them a cheat sheet for later reference, they would still keep on as they always had. 

[Kat Kid]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

My friend's father flys to Italy for medical care.  People are weird.

[steve dave]

[Trim]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

I can't say that I have ever had a to wait more than 2 weeks to see a doctor. My Canadian friend is very envious. He sometimes comes to the US and pays out of his own pocket to see a doctor.

My friend's father flys to Italy for medical care.  People are weird.

Black Mamba and Brandon Roy go to Germany.

[slobber]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

What is that 22 year old going to do instead?

Law School?

Those professions seem like they would require different skill sets. I think engineer is more likely, but being a doctor would have to become a lot less lucrative before kids want to be engineers instead of doctors.

That was just for the lawyers on here.
If the average family physician loses 33% of their income, assuming the average income is about $180k for a family physician (I know some make a hell of a lot more, but some make a hell of a lot less- I googled it and $180k seemed like a decent average and it makes the math easy), then the average income drops to $120k. Throw in the $100k in med school loans, it seems reasonable to me that some kids will gladly jump on the engineer train and start out at $70k (or whatever it is these days) and work their way up without the medical school debt. Don't forget that the engineer starts making money 8 years earlier than the physician.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I have no doubt that the poor people will just continue to use the ER. It is very difficult to find a family practitioner that sees new patients now, and the larger patient pool this provides will make it completely impossible. Nobody is going to wait in line for hours at a walk in clinic to get preventative care.

Just wait until the mass retirement of doctors not willing to work for the mandated fees for service. Expect 6 month waits to see a nurse practitioner. It will be rare to actually see a real doctor.

It already is very hard to see a real doctor, and that has nothing to do with this legislation.

Also, I don't really buy this doctors quitting because of fees stuff. What else are they going to do that provides them the lifestyle they currently enjoy? The government forcing the doctors to provide service at a rate that's not quite as ridiculous as they are currently charging doesn't seem that ridiculous to me.

They may not retire immediately, but I think the bigger problem is that the profession will not be as lucrative as it once was. The assumption is that this may be a deciding factor in young people investing the time and effort it takes to become a doctor. Factor in the additional time it will take to pay off student loans due to the lower earnings and it seems somewhat reasonable that a 22 year old will say, "eff that, I ain't going to become a doc and then work until I am 70 to pay off my student loans."

What is that 22 year old going to do instead?

Law School?

Those professions seem like they would require different skill sets. I think engineer is more likely, but being a doctor would have to become a lot less lucrative before kids want to be engineers instead of doctors.

That was just for the lawyers on here.
If the average family physician loses 33% of their income, assuming the average income is about $180k for a family physician (I know some make a hell of a lot more, but some make a hell of a lot less- I googled it and $180k seemed like a decent average and it makes the math easy), then the average income drops to $120k. Throw in the $100k in med school loans, it seems reasonable to me that some kids will gladly jump on the engineer train and start out at $70k (or whatever it is these days) and work their way up without the medical school debt. Don't forget that the engineer starts making money 8 years earlier than the physician.

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

Also, it varies largely based upon what field of engineering you are going into, but in my experience, engineers are starting at around $50,000.

[slobber]

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

They may.
However, if they can't get into med school now, do you want them taking care of you when they are able to get in simply because the most qualified people chose not to pursue the career field? Something to consider.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

They may.
However, if they can't get into med school now, do you want them taking care of you when they are able to get in simply because the most qualified people chose not to pursue the career field? Something to consider.

It couldn't be worse than what I've got now. They would still have to graduate from med school to be a doctor. Why should I care if they had a few bad grades freshman year in college?

[slobber]

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

They may.
However, if they can't get into med school now, do you want them taking care of you when they are able to get in simply because the most qualified people chose not to pursue the career field? Something to consider.

It couldn't be worse than what I've got now. They would still have to graduate from med school to be a doctor. Why should I care if they had a few bad grades freshman year in college?

Okay. It will all be excellent.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

They may.
However, if they can't get into med school now, do you want them taking care of you when they are able to get in simply because the most qualified people chose not to pursue the career field? Something to consider.

It couldn't be worse than what I've got now. They would still have to graduate from med school to be a doctor. Why should I care if they had a few bad grades freshman year in college?

Okay. It will all be excellent.

You are also neglecting to mention that because all of these more qualified people are becoming engineers so we will have better medicine, better roads, healthier foods, lower priced goods, and a better economy.

[slobber]

Do you not think others who cannot currently get into med school would replace them?

They may.
However, if they can't get into med school now, do you want them taking care of you when they are able to get in simply because the most qualified people chose not to pursue the career field? Something to consider.

It couldn't be worse than what I've got now. They would still have to graduate from med school to be a doctor. Why should I care if they had a few bad grades freshman year in college?

Okay. It will all be excellent.

You are also neglecting to mention that because all of these more qualified people are becoming engineers so we will have better medicine, better roads, healthier foods, lower priced goods, and a better economy.

No, I took that into consideration when I said it will ALL be excellent. (And they said Utopia could not be attained- HA, I laugh in their faces!)