Who is ready for some ACA rulin' today?

[ednksu]

LOOK, LET ME BE CLEAR, THIS IS NOT A TAX!
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/obama-in-2009-its-not-a-tax/

so the court did the dirty work for him. 

almost middle class families have/or have access/means to get healthcare so your point is entirely moot.

Only you would be this naive to think 30 million more people are going to be covered without the middle class paying for it. Thinking people have been screaming "this is a tax" for 2 years, but the morons believed Obama-Pelosi-Reid that this won't cost us anything. In the mean time, insurance rates have gone up in anticipation.

LULZ
obama you mad.jpg


So mortgaging our future to give this country away to your favorite corporate interests is a good thing.  Making people pay for services that are already being rendered to them and paid for by others (middle class) is a bad thing; got it thanks.   

Insurance rates have not gone up in anticipation.  Expenses have gone up because your gods or hording cash in fear of the lies they have constructed. 

[Mr Bread]

are you people retards?  calling it a tax is far more logical than calling it interstate commerce.  they take your money, which you are required by law to pay, and use that money to provide a civic service.  that's a rough ridin' tax.

the notion that it isn't a tax, because you are allowed not pay the tax, provided you engage in a behavior they wish to encourage is infantile.  our entire tax code is built around that concept.

It makes use of that concept, but it certainly isn't built around it.  You've also diluted the meaning of the word "tax" to such a degree as to make it simply "money to the government" regardless of the impetus and context of payment.  Words have specific definitions; those who don't bother to make use of them are generally stupid or just rough ridin' intellectually lazy. 

Fine: a sum of money imposed as a penalty for an offense or dereliction.  Tax: a sum of money demanded by a government for its support or for specific facilities or services, levied upon incomes, property, sales, etc. 

The primary purpose of the payment dictates what it is defined as.  I've recently been diagnosed as a possible Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) though, so I could be off-base. 

[sys]

mr bread, i don't think you're Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), you should get a second opinion.


a fine is punitive in nature.  this is not punitive - the sum of money collected is not obviously greater than what the person would outlay to escape the tax.

[kstatefreak42]

OBAMAROMNEYCARE.ORG



satanist

[Cire]

It's no different than a sin tax.  Or the fed saying, raise the drinking age or lose highway funding.

[Stevesie60]

I have never, ever, EVER taken a stance on anything political, but thinking of people who are against this has made me perpetually angry for the past 24 hours.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

It's no different than a sin tax. Or the fed saying, raise the drinking age or lose highway funding.

Didn't the court just rule this to be unconstitutional?

[sys]

good listening, if you want to better understand how mumped the united states is.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/391/more-is-less

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/392/someone-elses-money

[Stevesie60]

"It is not the government's job to keep everyone alive In earlier ages, when people young or old were sick....they died"
- A conservative telling me why new Healthcare plan is bad

[Cire]

It's no different than a sin tax. Or the fed saying, raise the drinking age or lose highway funding.

Didn't the court just rule this to be unconstitutional?

Link

[ednksu]

It's no different than a sin tax. Or the fed saying, raise the drinking age or lose highway funding.

Didn't the court just rule this to be unconstitutional?

if this is it, it doesn't look like it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Minimum_Drinking_Age_Act#Opposition

[ednksu]

"It is not the government's job to keep everyone alive In earlier ages, when people young or old were sick....they died"
- A conservative telling me why new Healthcare plan is bad

ask him how he feels about abortion and letting old people die in shitty homes

[Stevesie60]

"It is not the government's job to keep everyone alive In earlier ages, when people young or old were sick....they died"
- A conservative telling me why new Healthcare plan is bad

ask him how he feels about abortion and letting old people die in shitty homes

I did. And I asked him why the government should have a military if we have no reason to preserve Americans' lives.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Thanks to edna and jakesie this thread got real Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) real fast.


Re: the "A"CA ruling.  I think it's terrible precedent.  To say the federal govt. can tax you for not buying something is a horrible idea.  It's not similar to a sin tax, a sin tax is a surcharge on an activity the govt. wishes to disincentivize (e.g. Cigarettes are $6 a pack, almost all taxes).  This is a tax on inactivity.  All taxes are penalties in my opinion, not sure I care for that idiotic exercise in semantics, but feel free to cite Webster's etc. to prove a point, no one gives a eff.  Under this ruling the govt can basically say anyone that doesn't join the military has to pay $50,000 and because everyone in our country benefits from the military the tax would be legitimate.  If you like civil liberty, you should not like the holding in this case.

I don't give a eff if you think the "A"CA is great policy (it isn't and an overwhelming majority of people and congressman agree on that).  I don't care if you're so stupid that you actually think it's the federal government's obligation to take care of every one of its citizens.  That's not the argument here.  You can oppose the "A"CA without wishing death on lazy poor people who aren't going to sign up for insurance no matter how free it is.  Supporting the "A"CA does not make you a charitable or caring person, if you want to be charitable or caring donate money to medical research or become a doctor and open a clinic.  Taking someone elses money and giving it to someone else is not charity.

The legal precedent set is/was unprecendented.  It's surprising to everyone.  The commerce clause argument B.O. and the libtards swore by was shot down.  But they got an even bigger prize, they can now tax you for doing anything and now NOTHING.  Congrats, idiots.

Salutations,
Sugar Dick

[ednksu]

Fake

till 3:35

also I imagine you want the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Heart of Atlanta was bad because it expanded Fed power too much.

[Stevesie60]

And now I realize why everyone makes fun of FSD all the time.

[p1k3]

Legallize pot and end the FDA would solve a lot of health care issues. Not everything, mind you.

Obamacare though is a mess.

[star seed 7]

Legallize pot and end the FDA would solve a lot of health care issues. Not everything, mind you.

Obamacare though is a mess.

and you wonder why people think ron paul supporters are crazy.

[p1k3]

Legallize pot and end the FDA would solve a lot of health care issues. Not everything, mind you.

Obamacare though is a mess.

and you wonder why people think ron paul supporters are crazy.

The pharmaceutical companies run the FDA, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). The FDA doesnt allow new drugs because it would affect their bottom line (or the corporations that are the FDA). The barriers for entry are ridiculous in this industry. If there was no FDA and people could choose their own treatments, prices would go down. A lot.

Before you babble on about "Durrr Ron Paul supporters durrr" please google Stanislaw Burzynski and understand the implications of his situation. Thx.

[ednksu]

Legallize pot and end the FDA would solve a lot of health care issues. Not everything, mind you.

Obamacare though is a mess.

and you wonder why people think ron paul supporters are crazy.

The pharmaceutical companies run the FDA, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). The FDA doesnt allow new drugs because it would affect their bottom line (or the corporations that are the FDA). The barriers for entry are ridiculous in this industry. If there was no FDA and people could choose their own treatments, prices would go down. A lot.

Before you babble on about "Durrr Ron Paul supporters durrr" please google Stanislaw Burzynski and understand the implications of his situation. Thx.

eff NO

[Stupid Fitz]

Legallize pot and end the FDA would solve a lot of health care issues. Not everything, mind you.

Obamacare though is a mess.

and you wonder why people think ron paul supporters are crazy.

Actually pretty scary. I read an article about pharm companies not researching or producing many new antibiotics because they don't make Enough money off drugs that people don't take forever.
The pharmaceutical companies run the FDA, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). The FDA doesnt allow new drugs because it would affect their bottom line (or the corporations that are the FDA). The barriers for entry are ridiculous in this industry. If there was no FDA and people could choose their own treatments, prices would go down. A lot.

Before you babble on about "Durrr Ron Paul supporters durrr" please google Stanislaw Burzynski and understand the implications of his situation. Thx.

[Stupid Fitz]

Still confused. Supreme Court says it is a tax, but White House still says it isn't. 

[Cire]

And...

[jmlynch1]

Still confused. Supreme Court says it is a tax, but White House still says it isn't. 

Hmm...quite the pickle

[p1k3]

Still confused. Supreme Court says it is a tax, but White House still says it isn't. 

one of them is lying