Author Topic: OUCH  (Read 5825 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2012, 11:36:21 AM »
People can't afford to live on minimum wage because of inflation - which in our case, several would argue is a direct result of government spending.  Fix this problem first - then reform welfare.   Also, I'd like to know how many people on minimum wage are actually just teen-aged kids with no bills.  After taking out that # - how many people are actually trying to "live" on minimum wage? What I think this really comes down to; I could, if i needed to, survive on much less than I do now.   We often get caught up in keeping up with the jones's & deciding that simple luxuries are necessities and hey... I'm guilty of it too. 


A full time job of minimum wage is roughly 15,000 a year. Now I'm not saying I could live on that - but lets look at this a little closer.   Lets presume if I'm on minimum wage, I didn't go to college, so I have no student loans.   No student loans.  Boom - already $250 a month back into slackers budget that I don't have.   I could live in value place rental & get free cable / water / gym etc if I wanted to be extravagant, but I'm sure I could find a place for less than the $670 a month it would cost to live there.   Lets be realistic and say I rent a  place for ~500 a month - which there are places for 425 out there.  utilities gas/water/electric - no cable - no internet & no phone for less than $150 a month... reasonable?  So - we're at 625 a month and we still need to feed ourselves.  Can I feed a family of four on $200 a month?   Chicken & rice is pretty damn cheep.  throw in some mac & cheese & pb&j sandwiches and hell yeah - $200 is more than enough. Walk to work because you can't afford a car.  So there.  It's possible.   You want to get farther in life?  Stay at your crappy minimum wage job and work your way up to manager. Opportunities will present themselves.   But it's like this, I'm not going to feel sorry for the person working in a minimum wage job trying to feed their family because if I throw them a bone, I'll be walking all over their pride and likely inhibiting them from looking for their own bones.  In Haiti after the hurricane, no one was thinking about how they were going to rebuild because they were too busy fighting over the scraps of food being tossed from red cross trucks.

Is this really a serious response? Walk to work because you can't afford a car? How are you supposed to find a better job when you don't even have a phone number? You really think you can eat a diet including chicken for $50 per month per person? That's less than $2 per day per person for food. What are you supposed to do if you get sick or injured? I'm sure the Haitians would have just had the whole country rebuilt within the 2 week period they had before starving to death if it wasn't for the pesky red cross ruining their ambition with handouts. Do you really think that people with minimum wage jobs decide that they would rather not get promoted, make more money, and move to a safe neighborhood because the government takes care of them?

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2012, 12:57:36 PM »
Yes, Walk.   There's always public transportation if you want to get extravagant. Pay as you go phone?   Budget for it.  Family of four fed on $200 a month... Hmm... seems tricky doesn't it?   Lets not take into account that kids eat free lunch & breakfast at school on your dime already because we still have the summers and we're talking about food stamps - not free food in schools.   Today, for example, I ate 1/5th of a monster turkey sandwich I bought from the deli at dillons for $5. That's 1 meal for $1.  It's enough for me because I'm not a disgusting blob.  Did you eat lunch for a $1 today?  No?   I did.     A sack of potatoes for $4  (Think of all the stuff you can do with potatoes - mashed/fried/baked)   Throw in a whole chicken every now & then for another $4.   Did you know you can buy a whole chicken for $4?   You can.   But anway, our goal is $50 a week or $7 a day to feed 4 people.

Sack of potatoes can easily last you a week, even using them every day - let's put a dollar amount on it shall we?  What is it, 25 potatoes in a bag?  $.16?  M'kay.  Take your whole chicken - again - if you're not a disgusting blob - that's roughly 8 servings when you suppliment with some potatoes. (my kids don't eat that much - really... a chicken leg is all I can force them to eat) So for each serving we're spending about $.66   Hashbrowns is really all I usually need - if I even eat breakfast but since we're still under budget we'll say I eat a piece of chicken & a baked potato for 3 meals a day.  I'm @ $7.92. Being off $5 ain't bad.  Not a lot of food, but it's possible.  Those were just two examples - and there is cheaper food out there.   Ramen noodles anyone?

I'm also not the monster you're making me out to be, I said I favor soup kitchens as long as they also served as an educational center showing people ways to get ahead in life.  You know, ways for people that "weren't afforded all the same opportunities" as a guy like me...   And by a guy like me, I mean someone that grew up in the ghetto of Wichita (plainview) eating chicken & potatoes and sometimes more because BOTH of my parents worked. Going to school every day until I graduated, took out student loans to get a college degree & later got a job that puts me in an income bracket equal to what my parents combined income was when they were my current age.   I don't feel sorry for welfare babies because I grew up in the same neighborhood & went to the same grade school as them.  They're still on welfare and I'm a productive member of society. I didn't receive any grants to go to college - I looked for opportunity because my parents taught me to only rely on myself to get ahead.

It's not just the idea that being dependent prevents you from looking for opportunity - it's the idea that when you're not dependent on someone else YOU will succeed because YOU have to.  There's no other option.   
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2012, 01:20:42 PM »
So you are proposing that these people who already have jobs sustain themselves on nothing but potatoes and ramen noodles, with the occasional $4 whole chicken thrown in. You are also neglecting taxes. The bottom 20% of Americans typically pay about 16% in state, local, and payroll taxes. This family of 4 also has no healthcare, no car, and no phone.

The cuts necessary to make this lifestyle possible would moderately improve the Federal budget situation, but they would also lead to higher-priced goods and services and fewer jobs.

Offline HeinBallz

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OUCH
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2012, 01:53:51 PM »
Listen.  I'll say it again.  Soup kitchen/learning center.  Don't make my line of thinking sound like a I'm a monster because Suzy loose legs decided to pop out three kids she couldn't feed.  Developing a lifestyle of government dependency is just going to continue this tradition of people not taking care of themselves.   How about sex education?  Why are we still teaching  kids abstinence? Teenage pregnancy is a problem because no one will tell the kid they can get free rubbers at planned parenthood.  Once some 16 year old girl pops out a few kids she's destined to be on some form of assistance for the next 20-30 years. 

Aside from that, people don't stay on minimum wage forever - raises happen and opportunities arise.  You're actually insulting people when you suggest they need to be taken care of.  Is life hard in this situation? Yes! That's exactly what creates motivation.  Not once have I suggested that this needs to be flipped off like a light switch but this is the direction it needs to go.


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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2012, 02:08:13 PM »
So you are proposing that these people who already have jobs sustain themselves on nothing but potatoes and ramen noodles, with the occasional $4 whole chicken thrown in. You are also neglecting taxes. The bottom 20% of Americans typically pay about 16% in state, local, and payroll taxes. This family of 4 also has no healthcare, no car, and no phone.

The cuts necessary to make this lifestyle possible would moderately improve the Federal budget situation, but they would also lead to higher-priced goods and services and fewer jobs.

You forget that the government pays you $1000 per child every April 15th. Nobody goes without healthcare.

Offline HeinBallz

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OUCH
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2012, 02:27:50 PM »
And he's missing my point entirely that a phone and a car is a luxury. You CAN live without them.


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2012, 02:36:13 PM »
And he's missing my point entirely that a phone and a car is a luxury. You CAN live without them.


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You severely limit your opportunities without them as well.

Offline HeinBallz

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OUCH
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2012, 02:44:30 PM »
You also severely limit your opportunity when you make shitty  and immature decisions.  Neither one of those things are anybody's else's responsibility.  You talk about how much it hurts the economy to let people starve - what about me? How much would the economy be helped if I wasn't overly taxed to ease the burden on people that have no motivation to get ahead in life?


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2012, 02:47:51 PM »
You also severely limit your opportunity when you make shitty  and immature decisions.  Neither one of those things are anybody's else's responsibility.  You talk about how much it hurts the economy to let people starve - what about me? How much would the economy be helped if I wasn't overly taxed to ease the burden on people that have no motivation to get ahead in life?


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Looking at the federal budget deficit, it's highly doubtful that your tax burden would be eased in any way by cutting entitlement spending. The entitlement spending also keeps wages low, which keeps the prices of goods and services you pay for low. If anything, you are able to accumulate more wealth due to entitlement spending than you otherwise would be able to.

Offline HeinBallz

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OUCH
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2012, 03:20:14 PM »
No.  It may appear to keep prices low, but when you've bred an entire section of your society that votes democrat to protect their way of life - big spending follows along with entitlement themed financial investments (think housing crises) that end up causing phrases like too big to fail to be thrown around - which leads to bail outs which leads to inflation.  Not to mention more and more give up and join the dependency wagon because its easier.  It may seem like I'm stretching here, but dependency from cradle to grave is not sustainable. This problem will continue to grow and grow until  it is a problem that cannot be reversed.


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« Last Edit: May 15, 2012, 03:23:49 PM by HeinBallz »
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Offline HeinBallz

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OUCH
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012, 03:22:48 PM »
So you are proposing that these people who already have jobs sustain themselves on nothing but potatoes and ramen noodles, with the occasional $4 whole chicken thrown in. You are also neglecting taxes. The bottom 20% of Americans typically pay about 16% in state, local, and payroll taxes. This family of 4 also has no healthcare, no car, and no phone.

The cuts necessary to make this lifestyle possible would moderately improve the Federal budget situation, but they would also lead to higher-priced goods and services and fewer jobs.

You forget that the government pays you $1000 per child every April 15th. Nobody goes without healthcare.

That doesn't even count the earned income credit.  You want a car?  Take the 6,000 you get in April from the EIC alone and buy a damn nice used car.


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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2012, 03:36:10 PM »
The EITC is nothing more than a republican handout. It is the reason so many Americans do not pay federal income taxes. At least it targets working Americans, though. I think giving an incentive to actually go out and get a job is important.

Offline HeinBallz

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2012, 03:45:14 PM »
The EITC is nothing more than a republican handout. It is the reason so many Americans do not pay federal income taxes. At least it targets working Americans, though. I think giving an incentive to actually go out and get a job is important.

Agreed.   I hope you understand the main theme to all of my rants is a desire to reform entitlement spending.   If basic human needs are the primary target, building self reliance & self confidence should be objective #1.  Our current system encourages dependency and provides no possibility for building self esteem - leaving all parties involved sinking deeper into a dark hole. 
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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2012, 03:52:22 PM »
The EITC is nothing more than a republican handout. It is the reason so many Americans do not pay federal income taxes. At least it targets working Americans, though. I think giving an incentive to actually go out and get a job is important.

Agreed.   I hope you understand the main theme to all of my rants is a desire to reform entitlement spending.   If basic human needs are the primary target, building self reliance & self confidence should be objective #1.  Our current system encourages dependency and provides no possibility for building self esteem - leaving all parties involved sinking deeper into a dark hole.

I agree that welfare for the unemployed encourages dependency. Welfare for the working poor, such as food stamps, EITC, etc. just allows people the means to continue working and not worry about their children being malnourished. I do think most of these people would demand higher wages without the government crutch, but that would also cost jobs and increase prices.

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Re: OUCH
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2012, 09:21:43 PM »
41% of registered democrats prefer a felon to Obama


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