Author Topic: Just saw Angel.....  (Read 9111 times)

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Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2012, 04:55:09 PM »
Doods, I know I'm swimming upstream here, but I hope Angel stays and plays well for the Q@s.   :dunno:

Yeah, I don't get the people wanting our players to transfer. I don't think Weber is capable of succeeding, but that doesn't mean I want him to fail. I don't buy a lottery ticket and then hope I don't win.

You didn't buy this lottery ticket.  you were on your way into the gas station to do so, but then some bum mugged you and bought the ticket for himself.

I still would love for Weber to prove me wrong. First of all, success would get him out of Manhattan much quicker than failure. Secondly, I would get to enjoy the success. Currie needs to go regardless of what happens with Weber.

It didn't get him out of champagne.

He's from Wisconsin, and coached at Southern Illinois, so he probably thought much more highly of the Illinois job than he thinks of the K-State job. If we don't give him fan support and he makes a deep tourney run this year, I could see him jumping to the first lateral move that gives him a call. We just have to  :crossfingers: that a good fit comes open. If he fails, Currie won't fire him for at least 3-4 years, and by then it will be way too late to hire a good coach.

Offline Barry McCockner

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2012, 04:57:37 PM »
Doods, I know I'm swimming upstream here, but I hope Angel stays and plays well for the Q@s.   :dunno:

Yeah, I don't get the people wanting our players to transfer. I don't think Weber is capable of succeeding, but that doesn't mean I want him to fail. I don't buy a lottery ticket and then hope I don't win.

You didn't buy this lottery ticket.  you were on your way into the gas station to do so, but then some bum mugged you and bought the ticket for himself.

I still would love for Weber to prove me wrong. First of all, success would get him out of Manhattan much quicker than failure. Secondly, I would get to enjoy the success. Currie needs to go regardless of what happens with Weber.

That needs to be our focus.  We can't get Weber fired in the near future, but it is vitally important that Currie is gone when Weber (or Snyder) leave, regardless of the circumstances.
"WELL BARYY YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU DO BECUZ IF YOU DONT DO IT, THEN WHO WILL - YOU GOTTA HAVE HART AND DATERMANASHIN AND FLOURIDE IN YOUR SYSTEM TO BE A TRUE CHAMPION" - The Ed

Offline Berries and Cream

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2012, 05:01:22 PM »
Umm, hey guys, if oscar Weber succeeds we probably will want to keep him because, you know, he's succeeding.  :dunno:

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2012, 05:04:21 PM »
Umm, hey guys, if oscar Weber succeeds we probably will want to keep him because, you know, he's succeeding.  :dunno:

Well, he should succeed this year because he's inheriting a very talented roster. Any transfers that we have are completely his fault for not being able to keep them on the roster. If he misses the tournament, he should be fired on the spot, and if he doesn't at least get to the second round, he should be on thin ice.

Offline doom

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2012, 05:10:01 PM »
thid roster is really being overhyped.  We sucked offensively.  If Rodney bails.   :flush:
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2012, 05:11:37 PM »
thid roster is really being overhyped.  We sucked offensively.  If Rodney bails.   :flush:

If Rodney fails it's Weber's fault for being too shitty to keep him on the roster. Weber should get no credit for defections. They are a bad thing. Frank would have had this team primed for a sweet 16 run. The same should be expected for the guy we decided to pay more than Frank.

Offline AzCat

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2012, 05:18:47 PM »
If he misses the tournament, he should be fired on the spot, and if he doesn't at least get to the second round, he should be on thin ice.

Yes and then no.  He should definitely be fired on the spot if he whiffs on the tournament and / or finishes below 5th in the Big XII.  But he should also be fired if he doesn't make the Sweet Sixteen.  That seems to be the established baseline expectation for the returning team so unless Weber is a pure drag on the talent that's already here, that is - unless he actually makes them worse, he should perform to expectations and take the team to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  Anything less and he should be canned immediately.  And, of course, if he's actually adding anything to the mix he'll take this team further than the Sweet Sixteen (otherwise he's purely dead weight). 

Online joda

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2012, 08:30:18 PM »
If he misses the tournament, he should be fired on the spot, and if he doesn't at least get to the second round, he should be on thin ice.

Yes and then no.  He should definitely be fired on the spot if he whiffs on the tournament and / or finishes below 5th in the Big XII.  But he should also be fired if he doesn't make the Sweet Sixteen.  That seems to be the established baseline expectation for the returning team so unless Weber is a pure drag on the talent that's already here, that is - unless he actually makes them worse, he should perform to expectations and take the team to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  Anything less and he should be canned immediately.  And, of course, if he's actually adding anything to the mix he'll take this team further than the Sweet Sixteen (otherwise he's purely dead weight).

I think sweet 16 is what he has to reach to start getting any support from the non-tuck fanbase. Anything beyond that, coupled with positive recruiting may start to win some of us over. A tournament appearance with anything less than a sweet 16 doesn't get him fired, but it keeps definitely doesn't buy him any love. Anything less than that (especially if there's no signs of positive recruiting) should not be tolerated.

However, the reality is that with our fanbase this isn't what happens. He actually has a pretty good situation here. If he keeps the roster we have, he's pretty much guaranteed a tournament appearance and probably a couple wins which results in him earning more time from the majority of our fanbase. If several key players leave, even though he should be held responsible for that he won't be. Our fans might actually grant him more time if that happens than if he'd somehow manage to final 4. And if he happens to beat KU next year we might as well accept that no matter what happens he's our coach for at least 5 or 6 years.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2012, 08:50:50 PM »
If he misses the tournament, he should be fired on the spot, and if he doesn't at least get to the second round, he should be on thin ice.

Yes and then no.  He should definitely be fired on the spot if he whiffs on the tournament and / or finishes below 5th in the Big XII.  But he should also be fired if he doesn't make the Sweet Sixteen.  That seems to be the established baseline expectation for the returning team so unless Weber is a pure drag on the talent that's already here, that is - unless he actually makes them worse, he should perform to expectations and take the team to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  Anything less and he should be canned immediately.  And, of course, if he's actually adding anything to the mix he'll take this team further than the Sweet Sixteen (otherwise he's purely dead weight).

I think sweet 16 is what he has to reach to start getting any support from the non-tuck fanbase. Anything beyond that, coupled with positive recruiting may start to win some of us over. A tournament appearance with anything less than a sweet 16 doesn't get him fired, but it keeps definitely doesn't buy him any love. Anything less than that (especially if there's no signs of positive recruiting) should not be tolerated.

However, the reality is that with our fanbase this isn't what happens. He actually has a pretty good situation here. If he keeps the roster we have, he's pretty much guaranteed a tournament appearance and probably a couple wins which results in him earning more time from the majority of our fanbase. If several key players leave, even though he should be held responsible for that he won't be. Our fans might actually grant him more time if that happens than if he'd somehow manage to final 4. And if he happens to beat KU next year we might as well accept that no matter what happens he's our coach for at least 5 or 6 years.

Sadly, I agree with everything you just said. If he managed a final 4, though, we wouldn't have to worry about how much time the tucks give him because he would take the first offer out of town. I think he is gone with an elite 8, and that is what I'm praying for.

Offline doom

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2012, 08:55:06 PM »
If he misses the tournament, he should be fired on the spot, and if he doesn't at least get to the second round, he should be on thin ice.

Yes and then no.  He should definitely be fired on the spot if he whiffs on the tournament and / or finishes below 5th in the Big XII.  But he should also be fired if he doesn't make the Sweet Sixteen.  That seems to be the established baseline expectation for the returning team so unless Weber is a pure drag on the talent that's already here, that is - unless he actually makes them worse, he should perform to expectations and take the team to at least the Sweet Sixteen.  Anything less and he should be canned immediately.  And, of course, if he's actually adding anything to the mix he'll take this team further than the Sweet Sixteen (otherwise he's purely dead weight).

I think sweet 16 is what he has to reach to start getting any support from the non-tuck fanbase. Anything beyond that, coupled with positive recruiting may start to win some of us over. A tournament appearance with anything less than a sweet 16 doesn't get him fired, but it keeps definitely doesn't buy him any love. Anything less than that (especially if there's no signs of positive recruiting) should not be tolerated.

However, the reality is that with our fanbase this isn't what happens. He actually has a pretty good situation here. If he keeps the roster we have, he's pretty much guaranteed a tournament appearance and probably a couple wins which results in him earning more time from the majority of our fanbase. If several key players leave, even though he should be held responsible for that he won't be. Our fans might actually grant him more time if that happens than if he'd somehow manage to final 4. And if he happens to beat KU next year we might as well accept that no matter what happens he's our coach for at least 5 or 6 years.

Sadly, I agree with everything you just said. If he managed a final 4, though, we wouldn't have to worry about how much time the tucks give him because he would take the first offer out of town. I think he is gone with an elite 8, and that is what I'm praying for.

He will never leave.  ever
“They said something along the lines of ‘it kind of sounds like you’d be interested in it.’ And I said ‘hell yeah I am. Why not?’” -Doug Gottlieb

Offline CNS

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2012, 08:55:52 PM »
Disagree on him jumping if he gets a deep run.  I mean, AD's have seen the oscar Weber Takes A Job show before, right?  oscar will have to be successful for 4yrs min with good recruiting as a key component to decent tourney performance before he gets offers above our level.  I mean, he ran Illinois in the ground within only a few years after making a very deep run, and was looking at either working for College of Charlotte(or some crap) or a year off this year. 

Unless he wins an NC, he is here for a while.

Offline Barry McCockner

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2012, 08:56:44 PM »
I care less about Weber's performance every minute, outside of the fact that it reflects upon Currie.  I don't want him hiring the next fball or mbball coach at K-State, and am taking measures to prevent that possibility.
"WELL BARYY YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU DO BECUZ IF YOU DONT DO IT, THEN WHO WILL - YOU GOTTA HAVE HART AND DATERMANASHIN AND FLOURIDE IN YOUR SYSTEM TO BE A TRUE CHAMPION" - The Ed

Offline kso_FAN

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Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2012, 08:57:06 PM »
oscar is 55 years old. He's going to be K-State's coach as long as we'll have him.

Offline purplenutz

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2012, 09:36:17 PM »
thid roster is really being overhyped.  We sucked offensively.  If Rodney bails.   :flush:

If Rodney fails it's Weber's fault for being too shitty to keep him on the roster. Weber should get no credit for defections. They are a bad thing. Frank would have had this team primed for a sweet 16 run. The same should be expected for the guy we decided to pay more than Frank.

"Frank would have had this team primed for a sweet 16 run"

Sure :surprised:

Offline Katpappy

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2012, 09:54:13 PM »
thid roster is really being overhyped.  We sucked offensively.  If Rodney bails.   :flush:

If Rodney fails it's Weber's fault for being too shitty to keep him on the roster. Weber should get no credit for defections. They are a bad thing. Frank would have had this team primed for a sweet 16 run. The same should be expected for the guy we decided to pay more than Frank.

"Frank would have had this team primed for a sweet 16 run"

Sure :surprised:
I'm all confused with the train of thought here.  Wasn't there going to be defections with our roster.  How's Frank gona win without his players?  :confused:
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline sys

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2012, 10:01:42 PM »
Wasn't there going to be defections with our roster.  How's Frank gona win without his players?  :confused:

in case you haven't figured it out by now, currie lies.  constantly.



run, ar-t.  run to freedom.
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Offline Katpappy

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2012, 10:04:58 PM »
Wasn't there going to be defections with our roster.  How's Frank gona win without his players?  :confused:

in case you haven't figured it out by now, currie lies.  constantly.



run, ar-t.  run to freedom.
Was Currie the only one saying this?  Thought this discussion took place before Frank left.
Hot time in Kat town tonight.

Offline sys

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2012, 10:13:01 PM »
Thought this discussion took place before Frank left.

it's not like currie just woke up one fine late march day and thought to himself "i'll be darned if i don't hate my basketball coach!"  he's been playing for this a long, long time.
"experienced commanders will simply be smeared and will actually go to the meat."

Offline Skipper44

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2012, 10:17:14 PM »
in his interview with Weber, Kietz mentioned  players going to Currie and threatening to transfer if Frank was back.  It would seem to be a safe assumption that Spradling was one of the mutineers, would love to know the others...

Offline j-dub

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2012, 10:17:38 PM »
Wasn't there going to be defections with our roster.  How's Frank gona win without his players?  :confused:

in case you haven't figured it out by now, currie lies.  constantly.



run, ar-t.  run to freedom.

yep. if angel leaves we win 18 next year max. burn it down.
"I started calling him John during the game, cause he was rocking it like No. 7 -- like Elway," Harper said."

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2012, 11:34:41 PM »
Wasn't there going to be defections with our roster.  How's Frank gona win without his players?  :confused:

in case you haven't figured it out by now, currie lies.  constantly.



run, ar-t.  run to freedom.

Yeah. It's possible that that story is true, but it's much more likely it was just made up.

Offline ksupamplemousse

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2012, 11:54:10 PM »
Doods, I know I'm swimming upstream here, but I hope Angel stays and plays well for the Q@s.   :dunno:

Me too GOSP.

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Offline naturalselection

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2012, 12:12:25 AM »
Yeah. It's possible that that story is true, but it's much more likely it was just made up.

Like most good lies, I have no doubt there was some truth to it.  Like most stories my guess is it is being exaggerated with the retelling.  Will Spradling was going to transfer, of this there can be little doubt.  Which probably would have marked the first transfer out of the program that Frank did not want gone (maybe Dom?).  When players you want to stay chose to leave, that is certainly a negative sign.  Were there others that went to the ad (in season I might add) to say they were also going to transfer?  Quite possibly, but there would have been 1-2-3 guys not brought back anyway.  I would be interested to see how many of the guys who were part of the "mutiny" were names I would have put on the probably not back list anyway. 

Honestly, the way Frank ran his revolving door roster was grating.  I'm sure there were many posters here who growled at his "we're young" talk every season, when he was the main reason we were young in the first place.  I was amazed that there wasn't more player blow back against it (seeing friends they thought they'd play with 2/3 more years gone season after season).  I think the "plan" is to build off of what we all saw and push it a little farther.  Lead us to believe that THIS was going to be the season that it would all come crashing down. 

That narrative might have floated too with a better coaching hire.  I could buy that the way Frank ran his roster could not be sustained indefinitely.  At some point he would have to change a little, or it wouldn't work anymore.  eff though if we didn't hire a bumbler that has me wanting to watch Frank burn it down (even if that was the case) more then him take it apart brick by brick. 

That staff moving to USC in total also doesn't help the narrative.  But you can see shades of the story starting to change.  Could be starting to move more toward "evil staff" instead of just "evil Frank".  Will be interested to see if the character assassination starts in on others.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2012, 12:15:18 AM »
I know Spradling was leaving, but none of us know who else was leaving. We had about 3 transfers every year under Frank, and it seemed like there was always a rumored transfer that ended up staying. The "mass defection" probably would have been Spradling, Williams, Watson, and Lawrence. This would be in line with the typical Frank offseason.

Offline wabash909

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Re: Just saw Angel.....
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2012, 07:39:09 AM »
 :sdeek:

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