George Zimmerman is a piece of crap

[michigancat]

What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?

Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah

And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?

I'm not interested in this bread crumb conversation.  To jump to the conclusion that one influence, in this case racism, is wholly to blame is asinine.  You're free to think otherwise.

Why is it asinine? Can you name any influence that had more of an impact? Or are you arguing that if blacks had gotten a fair shake in this country from day one that they would still have higher incarceration rates?

So which is it?  First you imply it's reasonable to blame the disparity wholly on racism, then you ask what had MORE of an impact?  It's asinine to say one factor has 100% of the influence.  Which is obvious to anyone with a pulse.

true, I misspoke. racism isn't the only factor, it is just the largest factor. it is asinine to think it's the only factor.


 

Then we move on to the historical point of view.  If we're discussing whether past racism has influenced black culture the answer is clearly yes.  And in my opinion has a lot to do with the disparities we're discussing.  My opinion, and only an opinion, is that past discretions cannot justify current actions.  Responsibility is necessary, whether for an individual, a culture or race, or a society.

Yeah, blacks are clearly a less responsible race. We can't ignore that.

[Pendergast]

Exactly, that was the conclusion I was going for.

[eastcat]

The Derp in this thread is reaching level 10.

Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.

Everything points to Zimmerman being not guilty. There isn't any evidence saying otherwise. If you fools want a court system dominated by public opinion and emotion feel free to catch the next flight to a 3rd world crap hole.

[SkinnyBenny]

The Derp in this thread is reaching level 10.

Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.

Everything points to Zimmerman being not guilty. There isn't any evidence saying otherwise. If you fools want a court system dominated by public opinion and emotion feel free to catch the next flight to a 3rd world crap hole.

the herp derp thing is overdone

[Ms. WackySquawk]

Has Zimmerman been killed yet?

[sys]

my favorite part of this thread has been how desperate skinnybenny has been for someone to acknowledge that he is outraged by anything and everything about this case.  good job, everyone, in not acknowledging mr. benny.

[nicname]

Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you.  #thanksgz

The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them.  I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow

such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.

Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.

They don't have a point.

 

Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.

If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.

Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.

I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it.  Do you have actual facts?

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html

Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???

Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate.  They don't prove anything though so, keep searching.  To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.

What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?

Poverty.

[star seed 7]

my favorite part of this thread has been how desperate skinnybenny has been for someone to acknowledge that he is outraged by anything and everything about this case.  good job, everyone, in not acknowledging mr. benny.

 

[SkinnyBenny]

You just acknowledged me

[scottwildcat]

You just acknowledged me

  'grats SB

[Trim]

Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.

Good gE'rs fact-check posts like this.

[sys]

You just acknowledged me

 

[SkinnyBenny]

Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.

Good gE'rs fact-check posts like this.

   Man, crap is getting really real around here.

[Headinjun]

Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you.  #thanksgz

The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them.  I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow

such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.

Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.

They don't have a point.

 

Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.

If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.

Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.

I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it.  Do you have actual facts?

http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html

Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???

Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate.  They don't prove anything though so, keep searching.  To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.

What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?

Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah

Racism will always exist, and within every race.  To discount it exists is not my point.  My point is that racism plays one part, and I would argue it accounts for a very small percentage of the differences in "statistics" such as those linked.  Why aren't asians on that graph?  Why aren't native americans on that graph?  Mark twain probably has the perfect answer for those questions.

The disparity in sentences can't be attributed to "Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah" as a judge would never use that criteria when sentencing a convicted defendant. 

I take it you're ignorant of the sentencing guidelines that have been put into place because of the drug war as it pertains to crack versus cocaine.   

Think about that, and then think about which communities each drug is prevalent in.

I also recommend watching the American Drug War:The Last White Hope by Kevin Booth.

Yes, judges do use such inputs in sentencing, to doubt that shows a grave misunderstanding of the legal system.  You've not provided any statistics on disparity of sentencing based on race.  This seems to show the disparity quite well:

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

Fact 8, if true.  However, yet again, racism is not the sole component.  To what percentage it influences such inconsistencies is impossible to gauge, making this a theoretical discussion.  So, feel free to tout ignorance and what have you, it's simply not the case.

I was going to use the same source..

Are you in the there's no racism anymore camp?   

[Headinjun]

Exactly, that was the conclusion I was going for.

Then why dance around and act as if it's not significant?

[Trim]

http://hosienation.com/2013/07/14/justice-deferred/

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Yes, the "stand your ground" laws passed by the NRA make it much, much harder to prosecute for murder.  Thanks Charlton Heston!

[Emo EMAW]

i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.

Pro-tip:  white people aren't the only racists.

[felix rex]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

[EMAWmeister]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

It really amazes me how casual all of Europe is about their racism.

[Jabeez]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

Roommate is Italian, from the east coast. I make lots of comments about Italians he thinks are racist.  East coast has kept their cultural identity among the separate European cultures inside of cities.  He gets really mad at things named after mafia characters, restaurants in particular,  and thinks its really racist.  His parents are hilariously east coast Italian though,  mom wears leopard print coats, smokes a lot, is incredibly overbearing on him ("joohnny you aren't getting enough food, you need to eat more!"). As a kid, he would get presents from his cousins that "fell off the back of a truck".  I find the stories really fun.

He also talks a lot about not liking black people, not all of them though, just the thugs . 

[bubbles4ksu]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html

[p1k3]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html

omg 

[kim carnes]

Wow

[felix rex]

Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.

Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html

Yep. Italy is Serie A racism.