George Zimmerman is a piece of crap

[MakeItRain]

I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.

If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence.   It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.

Pretty sure I was clear when I typed that, I said my stance was similar to KSUW, it didn't need to be restated. I didn‘t state it to curry favor, just being honest with how I feel. I doubt you spend too much time disturbed about the thousands of either innocent or unjustly sentenced men and women in jail, save your disappointment and finger wagging for that George Zimmerman doesn't deserved to be pissed on if he was on fire.

Also I didn't think this needed to be made clear, but I guess on message boards the obvious needs to be stated over and over again. The phrase "literally nothing" that you isolated does have important context that you chose to ignore. We know that Martin was an unarmed, law abiding 17 year old walking home at the time he was approached, followed, and subsequently confronted by an armed 200 lb man. This trial is about the semantics of the stand your ground law, we aren't going to find out that Martin had a weapon or that he was actually breaking into a house. Anyone who isn't sequestered and can read already knows exactly how they would rule right now and that isn't going to change. Wag your finger all you want, I'm being honest.

[MakeItRain]

Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?

I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on.  Martin hasn't commented.

I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.

Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.

[star seed 7]

Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?

I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on.  Martin hasn't commented.

I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.

Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.

There were chowder burns on his clothes that indicated a gun shot from less than 12 inches away.   That along with the witnesses collaborate GZ's story that he shot martin while being beat.  It was an answer to ww's question.

Is there some evidence that I'm missing that puts GZ shooting martin while not in an altercation and faking his injuries after, as you have implied earlier?

[MakeItRain]

Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?

I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on.  Martin hasn't commented.

I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.

Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.

There were chowder burns on his clothes that indicated a gun shot from less than 12 inches away.   That along with the witnesses collaborate GZ's story that he shot martin while being beat.  It was an answer to ww's question.

Is there some evidence that I'm missing that puts GZ shooting martin while not in an altercation and faking his injuries after, as you have implied earlier?

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot. Weren't you wagging your finger at me because I admitted that my preconceived notions won't be wavered? Work on being a better juror.

Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.

Please post where I implied Zimmerman faked his injuries. Context seems to be an issue for you.

[star seed 7]

On the first part, you're right, that's why witnesses are important as well, but you decided to ignore that part.

On the second part, I'm not searching for it because it was pages ago (Friday afternoon I believe) and I'm on my phone, but you said something similar to "if TM even caused GZ's injuries".   Only way I take that is a) someone else was there that night, b) GZ already had those injuries, c) he self inflicted/faked them.  I have read some theories on the self inflicted part, but they don't seem all that credible.

[star seed 7]

Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?

So you're certain that (because the only other true witness is dead) George Zimmerman must be telling the truth about this?

No, this is what "Dee Dee" says she heard. She is pro-Martin, so why would she lie about that?

Hey fuckface, stop acting like that was their only interaction before Zimmerman got his ass kicked. That's the only sentence we know for a 100% fact that Zimmerman said in the altercation.  It doesn't mean that that was the only thing said. We don't even know as fact that all of Zimmerman's injuries were caused by Martin.

Here it is. Rereading, you are right on that point.

[SkinnyBenny]

LOL @ GZ trying to go all tough guy and starting a fight with a high schooler and then ending up getting his ass beat by that high schooler who was merely trying to defend himself from a psycho with a gun who was stalking him. Seems like the world's biggest pud. Sorry.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.

TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.

The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

MIR has got to be the most racist poster at goE

[8manpick]

Since vigilante justice is seemingly okay, hopefully after the trial someone "takes care" of GZ.

[Dugout DickStone]

You could just follow him around asking him what he is doing until he took a swing, then judge him.

[ChiComCat]

You could just follow him around asking him what he is doing until he took a swing, then judge him.

"I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not doing anything"

[MakeItRain]

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.

TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.

The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.

Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.

I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.

Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?

[Trim]

You gonna be in town on the 3rd or 4th?

So, no?

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.

TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.

The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.

Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.

I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.

Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?

Its certainly possible that GZ brandished his weapon or did any number of other things - I liked your hypo where he called him a n* even better - there's just no evidence that it happened.

And if GZ brandished his gun before the confrontation, wouldn't that make TM even dumber for attacking him? Oh wait, under your theory, GZ first called the police, then decided "ok, so now that the police are on their way, lets go get this n*." He walks (I mean, stalks) up to TM and says real quiet like (so Dee Dee wouldn't hear) "I don't like you, n*!" Then he says in a louder voice "what are you doing here?" He then immediately jumps TM who was distracted because he was trying to eat his skittles while taking a sip of his iced tea. Is that how it happened? Feel free to elaborate. The possibilities are endless!

[ChiComCat]

He clearly didn't say "The police are on their way and can handle it"

Also, lol @ MiR getting on the jury.  No way a black man makes it on that jury

[kim carnes]

KSU, are you Mexican, why do you care about GZ or this trial so much?   You seem racist.

[SkinnyBenny]

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.

TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.

The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.

Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.

I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.

Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?

Its certainly possible that GZ brandished his weapon or did any number of other things - I liked your hypo where he called him a n* even better - there's just no evidence that it happened.

Yeah, because some psycho killed the only other witness.

[star seed 7]

Yes, the OJ and Casey Anthony trials both went the way I would have voted.

[OregonSmock]

Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.

TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.

The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.

The whole situation would have been avoided if Zimmerman had just stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police to arrive.  You seem to be making the case that Zimmerman was in the right when he chose to chase down Martin and escalate the situation.  That wreckless decision lead to an unarmed civilian getting killed, and I don't know how any rational human being could conclude that that kind of irresponsible behavior is justified.  You're jumping from point A to point C, and missing point B.

[star seed 7]

MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.

To me, this is 50 percent possible.  GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.

If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story?  Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.

[steve dave]

If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story?  Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.

nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.

[Kat Kid]

MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.

To me, this is 50 percent possible.  GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.

If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story?  Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.

He was confronted by an armed adult male who had been following him.  Pretty much a case study in self-defense there.

[Trim]

MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.

To me, this is 50 percent possible.  GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.

If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story?  Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.

He was confronted by an armed adult male who had been following him.  Pretty much a case study in self-defense there.

You're not doing the math, KK.  It's OK to have a gun.  It's OK to real-life PI people to an extent.  1+1=2.  Not guilty.

[star seed 7]

If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story?  Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.

nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.

I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.