George Zimmerman is a piece of crap

[steve dave]

OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.

If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.

Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law

yes, very awful law

This law is not at issue in this case.

yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.

[SkinnyBenny]

The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.

lol, that is just silly and not true

Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?

[puniraptor]

I would feel compelled to defend myself against a guy who jumped out of his car and chased me down with a gun in the middle of the night.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.

lol, that is just silly and not true

Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?

Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ

[sonofdaxjones]

What a sad deal, if you go looking for trouble, you're usually going to find it, why go look for trouble?

Just go home.

. 

[michigancat]

I would feel compelled to defend myself against a guy who jumped out of his car and chased me down with a gun in the middle of the night.

I think Martin kept the fact that he had a gun a secret. Not sure why.

[Kat Kid]

The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.

lol, that is just silly and not true

Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?

Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ

Those aren't competing claims.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Hey Nuts Kicked.  Its more than that.  Ok?  It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point.  But come on.  You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.

That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns.  Sniff test brah.

Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it.  I mean at least 150/yr or so.  Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them.  Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.

I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.

[The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep]

yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Hey dumbass, even if Martin did initiate contact in your wild ass assumptive scenario,  depending on circumstance Martin could have the legal right to do so. Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't lift his shirt and show the gun? Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't say "n-word, I'm going to beat, rape, drag, hang, and burn you for walking in my neighborhood?" No, none of this know any of this.

Good lord, talk about wild ass conspiracies. If Zimmerman had first flashed his gun, do you really think Martin would have attacked him? And I'm pretty confident that Zimmerman didn't say any of those ridiculous things because, if he had, Dee Dee would have heard them. Again, she swears that she clearly heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?"

What we do know is that Zimmerman actively pursued, even chased, an unarmed law abiding 17 year old kid and ended up shooting him to death. I don't care about the circumstances of the interim because we can't know what happened.  I thought gun owners were supposed to be well trained and responsible?

There was nothing unlawful about approaching Martin. And what happened in between then and Martin's death means everything. Dee Dee's testimony seems to indicate that Martin is most likely to have initiated contact, and the testimony of the nearest eye witness (Good) is that Martin was straddling Zimmerman and and beating him, which is consistent with his injuries.

[steve dave]

Hey Nuts Kicked.  Its more than that.  Ok?  It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point.  But come on.  You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.

That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns.  Sniff test brah.

Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it.  I mean at least 150/yr or so.  Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them.  Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.

I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.

that would be the lead story on the omaha news for a month and they would throw an annual parade for the gun guy

[Kat Kid]

Hey Nuts Kicked.  Its more than that.  Ok?  It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point.  But come on.  You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.

That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns.  Sniff test brah.

Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it.  I mean at least 150/yr or so.  Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them.  Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.

I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.

Because if there is anything we know about gun owners, it is that they hate talking about how they chased off a home-invading meth head with their gun....

[michigancat]

Hey Nuts Kicked.  Its more than that.  Ok?  It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point.  But come on.  You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.

That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns.  Sniff test brah.

Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it.  I mean at least 150/yr or so.  Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them.  Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.

I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.

that would be the lead story on the omaha news for a month and they would throw an annual parade for the gun guy

there would at least be a police report filed.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.

 

For those who don't know how to use Google, that's a joke based on Dee Dee's own (deleted) tweets.

[MakeItRain]

The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.

lol, that is just silly and not true

Its a great post and dead on. Trayvon was running from George, running from him. How in the hell does running from someone constitute an aggressive act? How does chasing someone not constitute an aggressive act?

[MakeItRain]

Hey dumbass, even if Martin did initiate contact in your wild ass assumptive scenario,  depending on circumstance Martin could have the legal right to do so. Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't lift his shirt and show the gun? Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't say "n-word, I'm going to beat, rape, drag, hang, and burn you for walking in my neighborhood?" No, none of this know any of this.

Good lord, talk about wild ass conspiracies. If Zimmerman had first flashed his gun, do you really think Martin would have attacked him? And I'm pretty confident that Zimmerman didn't say any of those ridiculous things because, if he had, Dee Dee would have heard them. Again, she swears that she clearly heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?"

What we do know is that Zimmerman actively pursued, even chased, an unarmed law abiding 17 year old kid and ended up shooting him to death. I don't care about the circumstances of the interim because we can't know what happened.  I thought gun owners were supposed to be well trained and responsible?

There was nothing unlawful about approaching Martin. And what happened in between then and Martin's death means everything. Dee Dee's testimony seems to indicate that Martin is most likely to have initiated contact, and the testimony of the nearest eye witness (Good) is that Martin was straddling Zimmerman and and beating him, which is consistent with his injuries.

I can't have a conversation if you either don't understand my point or refuse to. I'm not going to repeat this basic premise for you, if you don't get it I'm okay with calling this good.

[SkinnyBenny]

The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.

lol, that is just silly and not true

Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?

Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ

Pretty sure any reasonable non-racist non-gun nut person would consider it initiating an attack when a well-documented hotheaded vigilante wannabe with a gun disregards 911 operators and stalks an innocent teenager in the night.

Sorry that George Zimmerman is such a pussy bitch that he can't finish the fights he starts. I know that hurts.

[puniraptor]

Shouldn't the NSA jump in here with the recording of the Rachel-Trayvon phone call?

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

[michigancat]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION

I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter

[michigancat]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION

I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter

I ignore it because it doesn't rough ridin' matter. Zimmerman should have stopped at calling the cops. Period. No one's stuff is worth even the confrontation.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION

I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter

Because it doesn't rough ridin' matter. Zimmerman should have stopped at calling the cops. Period. No one's stuff is worth even the confrontation.

Well we just see the situation in 2 completely different lights

[steve dave]

If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away

yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION

I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter

it matters more to TM who just got confronted by a stranger with a gun in the middle of the night while trying to get away from him

[puniraptor]

I don't really think that George stalked Martin with the intent to murder him. I do think that he had a pistol packing tough guy complex and was unafraid of initiating a conflict because he knew he was carrying a gun.


I think you guys (ell, ksuw) are right in that, from the perspective of a juror, there is no way he is convicted of murder in this case.

If you honestly think George made the right call here, then I am sad.