Author Topic: The Chevy Dolt  (Read 7306 times)

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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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The Chevy Dolt
« on: March 04, 2012, 08:49:38 AM »
GM "temporarily suspending" production of the Volt and laying off 1300 workers.

Quote
General Motors Co. will suspend production of the Chevrolet Volt at its Detroit-Hamtramck plant for five weeks, temporarily laying off 1,300 employees.

According to the Detroit-based automaker, the idling from March 19 to April 23 is to match production with demand. This means demand was so shitty that they need to seriously lower the production.

"We’re matching our production levels with demand and building to market,” GM spokesman Chris Lee told MLive.com. No crap, Sherlock.

After starting 2012 with lackluster sales of 603 units in January, GM sold 1,023 Volts last month. Most of these cars were purchased by local and state governments, who know a good bargain when they see one.

GM sold 7,671 Volts in 2011, well below Akerson's announced target of 10,000.

GM blamed the lack of sales at the beginning of this year on “exaggerated” media reports and the federal government's investigation into Volt batteries catching fire. The fact that GM is charging $40k for a mid-size sedan that doesn't stay warm in the winter, cool in the summer, or even save much on energy costs, what with skyrocketing electric rates, might also have something to do with the low demand.

Engineers are also starting to second-guess the wisdom of tucking an internal combustion engine under the hood of the Volt, when it serves as nothing but a very heavy and expensive backup generator. "Gosh, if we were gonna include the engine, maybe we should have used it to alternatively power the drivetrain, kind of like the (much more popular) Prius and other parallel hybrids" said a GM janitor who wished to remain nameless.

To boost demand, the Obama Administration is considering a new "Rich Prick Rule" which will require all persons earning over $250,000 dollars to purchase a Volt. When asked about the possible legal hurdles this bill might face, White House Spokesman Jay Carney replied "eff it, we can make people buy health insurance, can't we?"


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« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:51:18 AM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 09:36:47 AM »
They've spent more on advertising this joke then they'll ever recover in profits.  Saw an ad yesterday during the Cats game saying this car was the future. Very dire future indeed.

 :lol:

Somebody link Obama saying he'd drive one if the SS would let him.  :lol:

Greens unwilling to put their money where their mouth is? Shocking


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Offline LickNeckey

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The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 10:28:42 AM »
It will be interesting to see if rising gas prices continue to push up sales.

Also while the volt may (prolly will) fail I think much of the ad campaign was presenting a new face for GM.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 10:45:22 AM »
It will be interesting to see if rising gas prices continue to push up sales.

Also while the volt may (prolly will) fail I think much of the ad campaign was presenting a new face for GM.

Doubt it. Very few who are impacted by rising gas prices can afford to shell out another $30-$35k for a new car, especially when it won't save much money given the increasing price of electricity.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline AzCat

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 11:54:34 AM »
They've spent more on advertising this joke then they'll ever recover in profits.  Saw an ad yesterday during the Cats game saying this car was the future. Very dire future indeed.

The future?  Pfft.  Electric cars are so 19th century.  Ladies and gentlemen, the Roberts electric car (circa 1896):



And the money quote, "A mere 115 years ago, before Ford’s model T or heavier-than-air flight, the one-of-a-kind Roberts could go for an impressive 40 miles on a single charge. Coincidentally, this is the same range advertised for the Chevy Volt, the combination electric-gas plugin hybrid car that much of the restructured General Motor’s hopes are riding on."

 :lol:

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 12:11:26 PM »
this is a serious question:

why do republicans/conservatives/etc hate electric cars?  they laugh at them and even hope they fail.  while i'll agree they aren't at a good enough stage yet, some people do enjoy them, but republicans seem to loathe even the premise that we may not be using oil forever.

is it just to be anti pussy-liberals?  or because if they were ok with electric cars, someone might think they believed in science?  i just never understood the blind hate.   :blindfold:

TIA for real answers and not links to the most random unknown blogs ever.
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 12:55:03 PM »
who killed the electric car? seriously, who?

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 01:24:20 PM »
this is a serious question:

why do republicans/conservatives/etc hate electric cars?  they laugh at them and even hope they fail.  while i'll agree they aren't at a good enough stage yet, some people do enjoy them, but republicans seem to loathe even the premise that we may not be using oil forever.

is it just to be anti pussy-liberals?  or because if they were ok with electric cars, someone might think they believed in science?  i just never understood the blind hate.   :blindfold:

TIA for real answers and not links to the most random unknown blogs ever.

We don't hate electric cars. We hate that government subsidized the Volt, which we all knew would be a complete boondoggle based on price and range, and we hate that this was the "moonshot" of GM, which is now owned by the US taxpayer thanks again to idiotic government intervention.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 01:34:28 PM by K-S-U-Wildcats! »
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »
this is a serious question:

why do republicans/conservatives/etc hate electric cars?  they laugh at them and even hope they fail.  while i'll agree they aren't at a good enough stage yet, some people do enjoy them, but republicans seem to loathe even the premise that we may not be using oil forever.

is it just to be anti pussy-liberals?  or because if they were ok with electric cars, someone might think they believed in science?  i just never understood the blind hate.   :blindfold:

TIA for real answers and not links to the most random unknown blogs ever.

Probably the same reason liberals hate affordable energy, Christians, poor people, self reliance, profits, individual success and civil liberty.

KSU nailed it, the right doesn't hate electric cars, they hate the idea of the government spending billions on these types of idiotic boondogles in the name of policy, in the reality of crony capitalism.  The money should have been given to the bondholders of GM that had their investment and contractual rights stolen from them in the dark of the night under the cloud of a phony bancruptcy.


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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2012, 03:13:11 PM »
Probably the same reason liberals hate affordable energy, Christians, poor people, self reliance, profits, individual success and civil liberty.

 :facepalm:
Hyperbolic partisan duplicitous hypocrite

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 03:40:00 PM »
This is no surprise. People buy fuel efficient cars to save money. It's pretty hard to save money when you have to pay $40,000 for a small sedan.

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 03:58:04 PM »
Probably the same reason liberals hate affordable energy, Christians, poor people, self reliance, profits, individual success and civil liberty.

 :facepalm:

Pretty awesome when posters don't realize they're being made fun of
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Offline john "teach me how to" dougie

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 04:06:29 PM »
electric cars won't be viable until there's a leap in battery technology, and the same with solar panel tech. trying to push them too soon is foolish and wasteful. trying to leave oil behind now will only crush the economy.

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 04:07:11 PM »
This is no surprise. People buy fuel efficient cars to save money. It's pretty hard to save money when you have to pay $40,000 for a small sedan.

And yet, this is a surprise to some people. Some of these people even get paid a lot of money. Why is that?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline AzCat

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 04:10:31 PM »
this is a serious question:

why do republicans/conservatives/etc hate electric cars?  they laugh at them and even hope they fail.  while i'll agree they aren't at a good enough stage yet, some people do enjoy them, but republicans seem to loathe even the premise that we may not be using oil forever.

is it just to be anti pussy-liberals?  or because if they were ok with electric cars, someone might think they believed in science?  i just never understood the blind hate.   :blindfold:

TIA for real answers and not links to the most random unknown blogs ever.

This is a serious answer:

I'm agnostic as to which particular energy sources power personal transportation so long as market forces unadulterated by the heavy hand of government make the final determination.  We use what we use today because our present fuels provide the convenience we want at prices we can tolerate.  When something better comes along market forces will shift us towards it and away from our present fuels.   I have no hate for electric or hybrid vehicles, only for leftist politics that, more than somewhat incoherently, informs us that we must artificially inflate the cost of hydrocarbon fuels because hydrocarbon fuels are scarce and the prices charged for them will therefore eventually go up causing us great harm.

Purely electric vehicles won't be practical for most drivers until they successfully mimic the convenience provided by hydrocarbon-fueled vehicles.  For example: give me a 7-passenger vehicle (ala an MB GL550) that will travel 300-400 miles on a $50-75 charge which can be completed in 3-4 minutes at the price point of the GL and I might buy one (would depend on the availbility of charging stations among other factors). 

Considering the Volt as an example note that it fails the practicality test rather heinously when considering its purely electric capabilities: 1) its real-world all-electric range is around 35 miles or roughly 1/10th of what I would find practical; and 2) its full-cycle charge time is 4 hours (220V) or 10 hours (110V) or around 60x - 150x what I would find practical.  Those are foundational problems that will prevent the widespread adoption of all electric vehicles until and unless they are solved.  The fact that the Roberts, produced over a century ago, had the same range as the Volt, should be a very large clue that range is a rather intractable problem for an electric vehicle.

Hybrids, whether of the plug-in variety or otherwise, don't make sense for most consumers today.  The redundant drive systems add weight, cost & complexity the cost of which very few consumers will recover in energy savings in the real world.  Some yes but nearly everyone buying these types of vehicles today would experience a lower cost of owership if they simply selected a moderately to very efficient gasoline or diesel fueled vehicle.  I have no problem with people buying hybrids as fashion or political statements, but I do have a problem with tax credits / deductions available for hybrids that are unavailable for other types of vehicles and the subsidization of the production of hybrids or their components.  It's wasteful, we simply can't afford the vanity of it right now. 

Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 05:13:50 PM »
Hybrids make great economic sense if you buy them at the right price. I own two of them. Neither is a Prius, by the way, which just makes too many sacrifices and is too darn ugly.

The Volt was just a terrible concept. As I noted in my slightly-modified article above, a "series hybrid" may work great for diesel locomotives, but it is stupid for cars. If you're going to add the weight and expense of an internal combustion engine, don't just use it as a backup generator - connect it to the drive train just like more conventional "parallel hybrids" such as the Prius do. Or, get rid of the ICE completely for a cheaper, short range EV such as the Nissan Leaf.

Ironically, after insisting that the ICE only generates electricity for the Volt's batteries, GM engineers later admitted that the ICE actually does power the drive train in very limited circumstances. Why limit it? Perhaps some bureaucrat or marketing whiz suggested that it wouldn't be "electric" enough.

At the end of the day, you get a very expensive mid-size sedan which doesn't save any money. The heater sucks. So does the AC. And, of course, nearly all of the electricity used to charge the car comes from oil and coal-burning power plants, so you're not even "saving the environment."
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline yoga-like_abana

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 05:37:38 PM »
hey dorks water is wet and gasoline is old neither of which you should really be worried about I am told

Offline p1k3

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 05:47:45 PM »
GM is effing worthless.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 08:25:11 PM »
This is no surprise. People buy fuel efficient cars to save money. It's pretty hard to save money when you have to pay $40,000 for a small sedan.

And yet, this is a surprise to some people. Some of these people even get paid a lot of money. Why is that?

Income level is not necessarily a sign of intelligence or even competence. Anybody who runs out and buys a $40,000 vehicle because of $5/gallon gasoline is just not good at math. Even if the Chevy Volt ran on some kind of free energy source and gasoline were $5 per gallon, you would have to drive a $20,000 vehicle that gets 35 miles per gallon 140,000 miles before you spend $20,000 on fuel. This completely ignores the fact that the Volt is not actually free to drive. The break even point is probably closer to 200,000 miles.

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 11:48:37 PM »
So if I get this right, the right wants lower energy prices by any pollution means necessary (aka gas go down plz), but they in no way want the government to help companies devolp alternative sources.
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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2012, 12:07:40 AM »
the government has subsidized the auto industry for a long time. Like, way before the Volt. But that was good subsidization.

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2012, 12:16:48 AM »
in fairness to the actual vehicle, its not that bad.  The article misses the biggest problem with the cars.  It has nothing to do with design or MSRP.  It more to do with GM allowing their dealers to rape customers by charging huge surcharges like "market demand" on these things.  Lots of people were scared away when dealers started to put a 5k to 20 rough ridin' K markup on these cars.
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Offline K-S-U-Wildcats!

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2012, 07:39:00 AM »
So if I get this right, the right wants lower energy prices by any pollution means necessary (aka gas go down plz), but they in no way want the government to help companies devolp alternative sources.

Yes, that's right. Expanded oil and gas permitting and exploration will create jobs, revenue, and lower prices. Companies should be free to develop alternative energy on their own dime. This is the true "all of the above approach." You should read the IBD article linked above regarding wind and solar energy, by the way.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline Rage Against the McKee

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2012, 08:24:21 AM »
So if I get this right, the right wants lower energy prices by any pollution means necessary (aka gas go down plz), but they in no way want the government to help companies devolp alternative sources.

Yes, that's right. Expanded oil and gas permitting and exploration will create jobs, revenue, and lower prices. Companies should be free to develop alternative energy on their own dime. This is the true "all of the above approach." You should read the IBD article linked above regarding wind and solar energy, by the way.

The oil and gas industry doesn't develop its energy "on its own dime" either.

Offline LickNeckey

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Re: The Chevy Dolt
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2012, 11:45:55 AM »
Is this issue a right/left Dem/Rep thing?

Does anyone believe for a second that a McCain White House would have treated GM differently?

So all the self righteous Libs just want free green stuff and are stupid and lazy and have never worked for nuttin and hate mercia talk is pretty wothless here IMO.