So, protecting our home court...

[8manpick]

Holy crap, what if we had redshirted Jake last year, kept Dom, and redshirted him too.  Then our backcourt would be Jake, Rod, and Dom.  That would be so awesome you guys, and I'm pretty sure we could have at least competed for a Big XII title this year, since the league is so bad [only 2 top 5 (national ranking) teams at the moment]. 

P.S: Is it too late for Hoskins to come back and use his medical redshirt year?

[WillieWatanabe]

The addition of a plucky Trim to this thread is a nice shot in the arm.  Frankly without him is the same old people making the same old tired arguments from the last three years.  Surprised most aren't bored with it yet.

This year the complaints are louder than last year, even though we under achieved more last year. It's because we didn't beat KU, Iowa State, or rough ridin' Oklahoma this year.

we lost to OSU, Texas A&M and Colorado, 3 times last year, bigwillie20.

[bigwillie20]

I was just trying to say wgaf if we lose to ku, that doesn't bother me too much

[OregonSmock]

Do better.

Well, you and Currie and Schulz can do better all you want.  It's not going to change anything.  You and they can't puppeteer Frank to basketball success. 

It doesn't sound like you want to fire him.

What do you want to do?

Recruit players who can shoot above 26% in Big 12 play? 

None of us on the board recruit (officially).  I'm afraid we're stuck with firing or not.

Keep Frank.  Fire some of his worthless assistants.

[kso_FAN]

I get the big picture and meeting expectations talking points. This team is finishing about where we thought they would, 11-1 and 10-8 is what I thought before the season.

However, I also get the frustration, because this will be Frank's worst home record of his tenure. Just because we got a couple road wins we didn't expect doesn't excuse being 4-4 at home in league games to me. Its frustrating to lose games to teams at the same level or worse than us at home and I'm fine with fans being a bit upset with that. That doesn't mean you fire the coach (I'm good with keeping Frank for a long time right now) and I don't have the answer to how to fix it, but even with a transition year I didn't expect to step back from going 16-1 (7-1) at home last year to finishing 12-4 (5-4) this year. Its highly likely its just an anomoly year (not that we'll be dominant at home, but we should go 7-2 at home in league games minimum), but it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

[wabash909]

Dax/zacker/wabash, what are you suggesting besides Fire Frank?  Fine him?  Give him an ultimatum to win ______ by _______ or he's fired?

Finings, not firings.

Really hit him in the pocket book.

We just need to dock his wage for every home loss we're favored in.  He gets one gimme a year against KU at home that he can lose without getting penalized + one other against a garbage team at home as long as he offsets it with a Top 10 victory on the road.

And if we finish with a worse home record overall than Oklahoma State or ISU like this year, that's another fine.

The stick you want to beat Frank with is our program does not favorably compare to Okie State and ISU?  I mean.  Ok.  Is there any other point you to get on the record while you are flailing around like a moron?

Oh God, don't even go there.

I love Frank.  I think he is a very good coach, who has the potential to be one of the best in school history.  The program is in great shape.

We've lost four times at home this season, two of the losses were completely inexplicable and I'm not going to casually dismiss them as meaningless.  It's disconcerting.  Frank has been a master at motivating our team to compete at a high level on the road, I'd simply like to see more consistency at home and I'd like to restore our home court advantage.  If we're going to take the next step as a program, it has to happen and I don't think that's a controversial statement.

[Kat Kid]

Dax/zacker/wabash, what are you suggesting besides Fire Frank?  Fine him?  Give him an ultimatum to win ______ by _______ or he's fired?

Finings, not firings.

Really hit him in the pocket book.

We just need to dock his wage for every home loss we're favored in.  He gets one gimme a year against KU at home that he can lose without getting penalized + one other against a garbage team at home as long as he offsets it with a Top 10 victory on the road.

And if we finish with a worse home record overall than Oklahoma State or ISU like this year, that's another fine.

The stick you want to beat Frank with is our program does not favorably compare to Okie State and ISU?  I mean.  Ok.  Is there any other point you to get on the record while you are flailing around like a moron?

Oh God, don't even go there.

I love Frank.  I think he is a very good coach, who has the potential to be one of the best in school history.  The program is in great shape.

We've lost four times at home this season, two of the losses were completely inexplicable.  Frank has been a master at motivating our team to compete at a high level on the road, I'd simply like to see more consistency at home and I'd like to restore our home court advantage.  If we're going to take the next step as a program, it has to happen and I don't think that's a controversial statement.

Me too.

Step 1:  Tell the pep band to gtfo
Step 2:  Turn the pep band area into a stage for DJamer's
Step 3:  No more t-shirt toss
Step 4:  Start having the marketing dept. spend money on events/contests give aways while students stand in line for the game/wait in the arena not during every timeout/stoppage
Step 5:  Give Frank a conference .850+ home win bonus
Step 6:  Everyone stfu 

[Trim]

In conference, home teams are only winning 61% of their games.

The top 2 teams in the conference (top 5 teams in the country) are 15-1 (we're the 1 ).  Weirdo ISU is also 7-1.  Loser Tech is 1-7.

The only school that is drastically better at home is OSU - 6-2 (we're 1 of the 2 ) vs. 1-7.

We are the most EXTREME home/road anomaly team (4-4 in each), but it seems like home games aren't as big of an advantage this year as normal.  Certainly not "impossible to win on the road in this league."

I'll await _FAN who doesn't go by how things "seem" to blast me with stats from earlier years to prove I didn't research this at all.

[Trim]

Home in-conference winning percentage the year before was 70%.

[sonofdaxjones]

Lots of "Just Win Baby" banners.

[kso_FAN]

In conference, home teams are only winning 61% of their games.

The top 2 teams in the conference (top 5 teams in the country) are 15-1 (we're the 1 ).  Weirdo ISU is also 7-1.  Loser Tech is 1-7.

The only school that is drastically better at home is OSU - 6-2 (we're 1 of the 2 ) vs. 1-7.

We are the most EXTREME home/road anomaly team (4-4 in each), but it seems like home games aren't as big of an advantage this year as normal.  Certainly not "impossible to win on the road in this league."

I'll await _FAN who doesn't go by how things "seem" to blast me with stats from earlier years to prove I didn't research this at all.

No, that is a good point for this season, but it doesn't make losing at home any less frustrating to me. And really its just two games, if we win the OU and ISU home games it changes the perception immensely. Its also another game where we had it tied late and had opportunities to win it and managed to lose. I don't mean to imply that Frank's teams won every one of those games in past years because they didn't, but we seemed to finish close games a lot better in previous years than we are this year. This team has had incredible high points, but some of the losses are just extremely frustrating.

[Trim]

In '09-'10, which was fun, we were 5-3 at home and 6-2 on the road.

[Trim]

No, that is a good point for this season, but it doesn't make losing at home any less frustrating to me. And really its just two games, if we win the OU and ISU home games it changes the perception immensely. Its also another game where we had it tied late and had opportunities to win it and managed to lose. I don't mean to imply that Frank's teams won every one of those games in past years because they didn't, but we seemed to finish close games a lot better in previous years than we are this year. This team has had incredible high points, but some of the losses are just extremely frustrating.

Sure, and you'd think we'd have better success at pulling out close games at home, except it hasn't seemed to make a difference.  Just like home/away hasn't made a difference in pulling out wins as underdogs.

[DQ12]

Play "Start Wearing Purple" instead of the pre-tip Sandstorm.

[kso_FAN]

In '09-'10, which was fun, we were 5-3 at home and 6-2 on the road.

The OSU and ISU losses were also frustrating that year, but we made up for it with better road wins and a better OOC. We still ended up with a 2 seed because of that. I'm not asking for that, but it would've been nice to be a 5/6 seed than and 8/9. I'm still hopeful we can end up as a 7 seed.

And I guess I missed the memo that at goEMAW you can't be frustrated with frustrating losses anymore. I still love Frank and when all is said and done I'll probably be pretty good with this season, but part of the ride is being disappointed with bad moments and to me losing to ISU at home was a bad moment.

[Winters]

Play "Start Wearing Purple" instead of the pre-tip Sandstorm.

Do not like the pre-tip sandstorm.

[michigancat]

In conference, home teams are only winning 61% of their games.

The top 2 teams in the conference (top 5 teams in the country) are 15-1 (we're the 1 ).  Weirdo ISU is also 7-1.  Loser Tech is 1-7.

The only school that is drastically better at home is OSU - 6-2 (we're 1 of the 2 ) vs. 1-7.

We are the most EXTREME home/road anomaly team (4-4 in each), but it seems like home games aren't as big of an advantage this year as normal.  Certainly not "impossible to win on the road in this league."

I'll await _FAN who doesn't go by how things "seem" to blast me with stats from earlier years to prove I didn't research this at all.

No, that is a good point for this season, but it doesn't make losing at home any less frustrating to me. And really its just two games, if we win the OU and ISU home games it changes the perception immensely. Its also another game where we had it tied late and had opportunities to win it and managed to lose. I don't mean to imply that Frank's teams won every one of those games in past years because they didn't, but we seemed to finish close games a lot better in previous years than we are this year. This team has had incredible high points, but some of the losses are just extremely frustrating.

Frank has won 56% of games decided by 6 points or fewer in his career (Bill Self is worse in close games). This year we're 4-5. That's definitely within an expected range.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/frank-martin/career_record?chart_record=4#record-chart

[DQ12]

Play "Start Wearing Purple" instead of the pre-tip Sandstorm.

Do not like the pre-tip sandstorm.

Well our dumbass students can't help but use the word "eff" during jock jams, so, I guess Sandstorm was the logical next step.

I might actually email the Athletic Department with Start Wearing Purple.  That would get people pretty fired up, I'd bet.

[Trim]

_FAN, I agree with you it's been frustrating.

I disagree with the meltdown'rs that anything that's taken place this year establishes a trend of Frank being Wooly and NIT-bound at best.

[kso_FAN]

I disagree with the meltdown'rs that anything that's taken place this year establishes a trend of Frank being Wooly and NIT-bound at best.

I disagree with that as well. Completely.

I do think its okay to let people vent though, and often time that is going to come across as irrational. It always does.

[michigancat]

And I guess I missed the memo that at goEMAW you can't be frustrated with frustrating losses anymore. I still love Frank and when all is said and done I'll probably be pretty good with this season, but part of the ride is being disappointed with bad moments and to me losing to ISU at home was a bad moment.

Maybe I missed anyone telling anyone they couldn't be frustrated. But if I believe someone is being stupid for thinking a couple frustrating losses are indicative of a larger problem in the program, I will tell them.

[sys]

Saying that K-State should have been better prepared personnel wise to take advantage of this perceived window to maybe win a conference title isn't an extreme level of expectations either . . . in fact, it is fairly tame if you think about it.  Expecting K-State to dominate at home isn't an extreme level of expectations either.   It's year 5 of the Frank regime, why should anything less be expected?   

so basically every school in the big 12 other than ku should just fire their coach every five years?  am i misunderstanding your position somehow?


oh wait, not fire their coach, just grumble unhappily to themselves.

[Trim]

I disagree with the meltdown'rs that anything that's taken place this year establishes a trend of Frank being Wooly and NIT-bound at best.

I disagree with that as well. Completely.

I do think its okay to let people vent though, and often time that is going to come across as irrational. It always does.

Sure.  The point I was trying to make was that if they truly believed that Frank was an underachieving Wooly-esque coach that let his only chance at winning anything of substance slip through his fingers, then they naturally should want him fired now.  They don't want him fired now.  So I think we're good with Frank and the schizo team he's got this year that might flame out in the first round or could make a run.  At least in less than a week, we won't have home losses to worry about anymore.

[wabash909]

Dax/zacker/wabash, what are you suggesting besides Fire Frank?  Fine him?  Give him an ultimatum to win ______ by _______ or he's fired?

Finings, not firings.

Really hit him in the pocket book.

We just need to dock his wage for every home loss we're favored in.  He gets one gimme a year against KU at home that he can lose without getting penalized + one other against a garbage team at home as long as he offsets it with a Top 10 victory on the road.

And if we finish with a worse home record overall than Oklahoma State or ISU like this year, that's another fine.

The stick you want to beat Frank with is our program does not favorably compare to Okie State and ISU?  I mean.  Ok.  Is there any other point you to get on the record while you are flailing around like a moron?

Oh God, don't even go there.

I love Frank.  I think he is a very good coach, who has the potential to be one of the best in school history.  The program is in great shape.

We've lost four times at home this season, two of the losses were completely inexplicable.  Frank has been a master at motivating our team to compete at a high level on the road, I'd simply like to see more consistency at home and I'd like to restore our home court advantage.  If we're going to take the next step as a program, it has to happen and I don't think that's a controversial statement.

Me too.

Step 1:  Tell the pep band to gtfo
Step 2:  Turn the pep band area into a stage for DJamer's
Step 3:  No more t-shirt toss
Step 4:  Start having the marketing dept. spend money on events/contests give aways while students stand in line for the game/wait in the arena not during every timeout/stoppage
Step 5:  Give Frank a conference .850+ home win bonus
Step 6:  Everyone stfu

This, in itself, would account for at least two more home victories.

We also need the students to stop being a bunch of lazy dumbasses and start bringing the organized chant sheets back.

[MakeItRain]

In '09-'10, which was fun, we were 5-3 at home and 6-2 on the road.

And I guess I missed the memo that at goEMAW you can't be frustrated with frustrating losses anymore.

I really hate when you do this, you post this whenever there is a grand debate about a loss.  Everyone associated with Kansas State University who cares about basketball even a little was frustrated by the loss, we are all frustrated to some extent by every loss, it isn't 2002 any more.

As I've exlained before, the stale debate, that I'm not getting into, is about how one loss effects the program.  There are some people who can't analyse an individual loss for what it is.  Every loss seems to be a litmus test for the program while the accomolishments are largely ignore.  Yes, the losses are aggrevating, annoying, and frustrating.  Reading opinions of those constantly waiting for any and all signs of doomsday are also aggrevating, annyoing, and frustrating.  Others can get tired of reading the same tired talking points every loss.  They also have the right to tell the antagonists to take a zanax.  You don't fit into this category I'm not sure why you feel the protagonists are addressing you.