Presidents don't matter to the economy

[mortons toe]

Let me help you...

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

[Rams]

Let me help you...

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

OMG HE REALLY DOESN'T UNDERSTAND! 

I mean, I was willing to give you benefit of the doubt.  I really thought you just misspoke.  But nope.  You really think that growing less = shrinking!   

Just fantastic stuff.  Thanks, toe.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Let me help you...

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

OMG HE REALLY DOESN'T UNDERSTAND! 

I mean, I was willing to give you benefit of the doubt.  I really thought you just misspoke.  But nope.  You really think that growing less = shrinking!   

Just fantastic stuff.  Thanks, toe.

All he said was the percentage of growth in 2011 was about 50% less than in 2010, or 3% in 2010 as opposed to 1.7% in 2011.  I know LickNeckey took it out of context, but you could have looked at the original post.

[mortons toe]

I'm gonna give this to you... you're right. My point was that the rate of growth shrunk from 2010 to 2011... your point is about every quarter. Congrats Rams!

[Rams]

i guess i thought people knew this, but i dunno.

No.  Most people are idiots and just repeat what politicians tell them.  See FSD's posts in this thread.  Poor guy's completely buffaloed.

Well, considering that Real GDP was nearly 50% lower in 2011 than 2010, I'd say you're the one that is buffaloed

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

This is the full original post.  What are we taking out of context?  The bolded part above is patently false and/or misleading.  Toe's comment was either horrible phrased, or he doesn't understand the difference between Real GDP and Real GDP growth, or he honestly thought GDP was CUT IN HALF from 2010 to 2011.  I honestly still don't know which one is true.  Stop blaming the reader for the author being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

BTW, my original point remains.  The economy may have grown less in 2011 than 2010, but it still grew.  And our POTUS is a Socialist job-killing Mooslim. 

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i guess i thought people knew this, but i dunno.

No.  Most people are idiots and just repeat what politicians tell them.  See FSD's posts in this thread.  Poor guy's completely buffaloed.

Well, considering that Real GDP was nearly 50% lower in 2011 than 2010, I'd say you're the one that is buffaloed

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

This is the full original post.  What are we taking out of context?  The bolded part above is patently false and/or misleading.  Toe's comment was either horrible phrased, or he doesn't understand the difference between Real GDP and Real GDP growth, or he honestly thought GDP was CUT IN HALF from 2010 to 2011.  I honestly still don't know which one is true.  Stop blaming the reader for the author being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

BTW, my original point remains.  The economy may have grown less in 2011 than 2010, but it still grew.  And our POTUS is a Socialist job-killing Mooslim. 

This is what I read from the toe post, as in a "less robust" economy in 2011 than in 2010.  3% growth to 1.7% growth is not something to brag about, and Obama's policies obviously are not working.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I really don't believe that a President's economic policies have much, if any, impact on the economy at large. I do think that decisions to go to war have huge impacts on the economy, though.

[LickNeckey]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

[LickNeckey]

so you are pretty sure the slight regression of growth is more 1 than 2.

got it

[Rams]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

I work full time as a software engineer for the man, and partners in an online retail business that sells patented products we manufacture, some in the US, some in China.

[Rams]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

I work full time as a software engineer for the man, and partners in an online retail business that sells patented products we manufacture, some in the US, some in China.

So if orders for your patented products started coming in so fast you couldn't keep up with them and hiring somebody would allow you fill those orders on time, would you hire additional staff right now? If you're not a horrible business owner you would.

See that's the stupid rough ridin' pitch line that we keep hearing.  "Oh companies aren't hiring anybody because of uncertainty about health care and taxes."  That's such a load of bullshit.  If companies need employees to fill orders and complete work they need done, they go out and rough ridin' hire somebody.  They don't sit around going "Well gee whiz...I'm just not sure how much how much health care is going to cost me a year or 2 down the road and I'm not sure whether I'll have to pay a couple more percentage points in taxes.  So I guess I'll just not fill all these orders that are coming in or make any more of these products that people are demanding."

Employers hire workers if demand for their product or service is high enough. If it's not, they don't.  Period.  End of rough ridin' story.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

I work full time as a software engineer for the man, and partners in an online retail business that sells patented products we manufacture, some in the US, some in China.

So if orders for your patented products started coming in so fast you couldn't keep up with them and hiring somebody would allow you fill those orders on time, would you hire additional staff right now? If you're not a horrible business owner you would.

See that's the stupid rough ridin' pitch line that we keep hearing.  "Oh companies aren't hiring anybody because of uncertainty about health care and taxes."  That's such a load of bullshit.  If companies need employees to fill orders and complete work they need done, they go out and rough ridin' hire somebody.  They don't sit around going "Well gee whiz...I'm just not sure how much how much health care is going to cost me a year or 2 down the road and I'm not sure whether I'll have to pay a couple more percentage points in taxes.  So I guess I'll just not fill all these orders that are coming in or make any more of these products that people are demanding."

Employers hire workers if demand for their product or service is high enough. If it's not, they don't.  Period.  End of rough ridin' story.

There are many other reasons to hire other than market demand, and  employers are doing a lot more with less.  Until they feel confident that the economy is turning and they are able to make long term projections, they will continue to keep the money safe.

[Rams]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

I work full time as a software engineer for the man, and partners in an online retail business that sells patented products we manufacture, some in the US, some in China.

So if orders for your patented products started coming in so fast you couldn't keep up with them and hiring somebody would allow you fill those orders on time, would you hire additional staff right now? If you're not a horrible business owner you would.

See that's the stupid rough ridin' pitch line that we keep hearing.  "Oh companies aren't hiring anybody because of uncertainty about health care and taxes."  That's such a load of bullshit.  If companies need employees to fill orders and complete work they need done, they go out and rough ridin' hire somebody.  They don't sit around going "Well gee whiz...I'm just not sure how much how much health care is going to cost me a year or 2 down the road and I'm not sure whether I'll have to pay a couple more percentage points in taxes.  So I guess I'll just not fill all these orders that are coming in or make any more of these products that people are demanding."

Employers hire workers if demand for their product or service is high enough. If it's not, they don't.  Period.  End of rough ridin' story.

There are many other reasons to hire other than market demand, and  employers are doing a lot more with less.  Until they feel confident that the economy is turning and they are able to make long term projections, they will continue to keep the money safe.

What the other reasons employers hire workers other than they need more workers to satisfy demand?  I agree that they aren't going to hire until they feel like economy is turning around (demand increasing), but that doesn't have anything to do with uncertainty about taxes and health care.  The economy isn't going to improve until consumer confidence picks up and consumer confidence isn't going to pick up until our politicians stop trying to scare the crap out of everybody to win votes.  Uncertainty about how much health care is going to cost and whether it's going to cost an extra couple of percentage points of FICA taxes are stupid red herrings.  If you need workers to fill orders, you hire workers.  If it costs you more to hire those workers, your margins either shrink or you pass along the cost.  It's not that complicated.

[CNS]

You could split hairs, ie: overtime vs more workers, contract labor vs employees, part time employees vs full time, etc but ultimately big pict wise, I agree.

[Rams]

You could split hairs, ie: overtime vs more workers, contract labor vs employees, part time employees vs full time, etc but ultimately big pict wise, I agree.

All of those decisions are still made on a demand basis with little to no regard for health care costs and FICA taxes.  If you need somebody to work full time to satisfy demand, you can't hire somebody for part time work instead.  Overtime costs time and half and you can only work somebody so many hours.  In most cases, employment law governs the contract labor vs W-2 decision.  Smart business owners will almost ALWAYS 1099 vs W-2 if they can get away with it.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

My feeling is that the uncertainty of the cost of doing business in the US has caused the sluggish growth. The cost to employers regarding health care and taxes is a complete unknown until after the election. Corps are sitting on their money waiting to see what happens. We don't even know what the end of this month will bring as far as employment taxes. Horrible environment to try and do business.

Do you own a business?

I work full time as a software engineer for the man, and partners in an online retail business that sells patented products we manufacture, some in the US, some in China.

So if orders for your patented products started coming in so fast you couldn't keep up with them and hiring somebody would allow you fill those orders on time, would you hire additional staff right now? If you're not a horrible business owner you would.

See that's the stupid rough ridin' pitch line that we keep hearing.  "Oh companies aren't hiring anybody because of uncertainty about health care and taxes."  That's such a load of bullshit.  If companies need employees to fill orders and complete work they need done, they go out and rough ridin' hire somebody.  They don't sit around going "Well gee whiz...I'm just not sure how much how much health care is going to cost me a year or 2 down the road and I'm not sure whether I'll have to pay a couple more percentage points in taxes.  So I guess I'll just not fill all these orders that are coming in or make any more of these products that people are demanding."

Employers hire workers if demand for their product or service is high enough. If it's not, they don't.  Period.  End of rough ridin' story.

There are many other reasons to hire other than market demand, and  employers are doing a lot more with less.  Until they feel confident that the economy is turning and they are able to make long term projections, they will continue to keep the money safe.

What the other reasons employers hire workers other than they need more workers to satisfy demand?  I agree that they aren't going to hire until they feel like economy is turning around (demand increasing), but that doesn't have anything to do with uncertainty about taxes and health care.  The economy isn't going to improve until consumer confidence picks up and consumer confidence isn't going to pick up until our politicians stop trying to scare the crap out of everybody to win votes.  Uncertainty about how much health care is going to cost and whether it's going to cost an extra couple of percentage points of FICA taxes are stupid red herrings.  If you need workers to fill orders, you hire workers.  If it costs you more to hire those workers, your margins either shrink or you pass along the cost.  It's not that complicated.

Other reasons to hire include R&D and  market expansion, both of which require large amounts of cash and manpower and can take years to pay off.  These two things contracted pretty heavily in the last 3 years in a lot of industries.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

That's such a load of bullshit.  If companies need employees to fill orders and complete work they need done, they go out and rough ridin' hire somebody.  They don't sit around going "Well gee whiz...I'm just not sure how much how much health care is going to cost me a year or 2 down the road and I'm not sure whether I'll have to pay a couple more percentage points in taxes.  So I guess I'll just not fill all these orders that are coming in or make any more of these products that people are demanding."

Employers hire workers if demand for their product or service is high enough. If it's not, they don't.  Period.  End of rough ridin' story.

When your bi-polar personality disorder is part Arther Laffer and part Donkey

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

i guess i thought people knew this, but i dunno.

No.  Most people are idiots and just repeat what politicians tell them.  See FSD's posts in this thread.  Poor guy's completely buffaloed.

Well, considering that Real GDP was nearly 50% lower in 2011 than 2010, I'd say you're the one that is buffaloed

and yet the economy has grown every quarter since 2010

This is the full original post.  What are we taking out of context?  The bolded part above is patently false and/or misleading.  Toe's comment was either horrible phrased, or he doesn't understand the difference between Real GDP and Real GDP growth, or he honestly thought GDP was CUT IN HALF from 2010 to 2011.  I honestly still don't know which one is true.  Stop blaming the reader for the author being Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).

BTW, my original point remains.  The economy may have grown less in 2011 than 2010, but it still grew.  And our POTUS is a Socialist job-killing Mooslim. 

Remember the recession when W was president, when gdp growth slowed to just under 1%?  Yeah, that's what Morton's Toe is talking about.

If you don't know lickity split about interpreting economic metrics, it's best to just keep quiet.

[Rams]

Other reasons to hire include R&D and  market expansion, both of which require large amounts of cash and manpower and can take years to pay off.  These two things contracted pretty heavily in the last 3 years in a lot of industries.

Fair enough, but R&D only accounts for about 3% of our economy, so that's pretty much a non-starter. And again, companies don't spend money on market expansion when consumer confidence is in the toilet. It has nothing to do with taxes and health care.

[Rams]

FSD bringing the strong, well-reasoned arguments per usual. 

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

Stocks really surged today on the heels of that Greek debt deal today, huh?

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

FSD bringing the strong, well-reasoned arguments per usual. 

yeah, you're right, taxes and economic uncertainty have no material effect on the economy. 

[Rams]

i honestly misunderstood Toe's comment and interpreted it as him being full blown Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).  it turns out he is just horrible at articulating his point.

now in terms of less robust growth.  which has played a larger role in your mind

1. job killing mooslim socialist marxist wannabe POTUS

2. European Debt crisis

thanks i'll listen off the air

Stocks really surged today on the heels of that Greek debt deal today, huh?

Hey look everybody, FSD doesn't understand how the stock market works.  Big shocker here.