The Battle for 5th

[Pete]

you know what? I think we can do it.

KSU : TT, @ UT, KU, @ BU, @ MU, ISU, @A&M, OSU
UT    : @ A&M, KSU, @ OU, @ OSU, BU, @ TT, @ KU
OSU : ISU, @KU, @MU, UT, @ OU, A&M, KU, @ KSU

OSU prolly has the toughest road. we pissed away any shot at top 4 last week.

ISU: @OSU, A&M, @BU, OU, TT, @KSU, @MU, BU,

I could see ISU going 3-5, at the worst.

I could see us going 5-3 at the best. 

 

[MakeItRain]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

[felix rex]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

20/10/4 168/169!

[ChiComCat]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

[Pete]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

[kso_FAN]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

Listen to Pete.

[Stupid Fitz]

Please tell me which teams I should hate.

TIA

[MakeItRain]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

[ChiComCat]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure

[MakeItRain]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure

Take a look at the things that the committee supposedly covets and you'll be sure.  Also the committee has consistently said and shown that they don't place much value in the tournaments.  This comes up every single year and whomever the committee chair is gives a similar answer to the question.

[Pete]

So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?

[MakeItRain]

So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?

Yeah the best ones, top 50 and 100 wins.

[MakeItRain]

Also number of road and neutral site wins.  We already have 7, that is an insane amount for a bubble team.

[Pete]

Miami is rough ridin' us right now....COME ON DEVIL CATS!

[ChiComCat]

Why settle for 2nd, when 5th is available?

KSU  5-5
UT    4-6
OSU 4-6

Pretty similar schedules here on out.

4th place no longer matters.

In the Big 12 tourney:
#1 will play the winner of #7/10
#2 will play the winner of #8/9
#3 will play #6
#4 will play #5

#1, #2, #3, #4, #5 and #6 all get a bye.

Other than being able to say "Yay, we were 4th!", there is no difference between 4th and 5th place anymore.

I am almost certain it makes a difference to selection committee.  The season doesn't end with the Big12 tourney

The committee has shown time after time that they pay little to no attention to conference standings and or conference tournaments.  Remember '06-'07.
http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/schedule/2006-2007
http://themaskedreport.com/texas-tech-basketball/schedule/2006-2007

Not saying it would guarantee or is the most important factor but as far as conference standings, the difference between finishing above Iowa St and below Iowa St could be quite important.

We need to be rooting for ALL bubble teams to lose.  Iowa State is just one of them.

We aren't in the position to have to worry about that yet.  If we win four more games we're in.  I feel like I'm going to have to post this like 10 more times in the next month, but by all objective measures our profile as it relates to other bubble teams is very good.  Really this is just an extended freak out about the OU loss.  All bubble teams have loss/losses like this, we need to look at the other things.

You think 9-9 gets us in w/o a conf tourney win?  I am not so sure

Take a look at the things that the committee supposedly covets and you'll be sure.  Also the committee has consistently said and shown that they don't place much value in the tournaments.  This comes up every single year and whomever the committee chair is gives a similar answer to the question.

I don't place a lot of value in the tournaments except for adding 1 more conference win or quality win.

I wouldn't feel comfortable unless we get to 10.  Our conference maybe dividing into two separate groups and I don't think it'll look good to be 5th if its 3 games back from 3rd.  Allows an observer to draw a big thick line between the deserving and the not.

[michigancat]

So, our "pluses" right now are:

1. 1 "marquee" win over Mizzou

2. Good record in a decent non-con from an RPI stand point

3.  hopefully above .500 in the conference


Am I missing some?

Yeah the best ones, top 50 and 100 wins.

Also zero 100+ RPI losses.  aTm OSU, and TT are our only shots at one the rest of the way. @aTm obviously being the most difficult.

[MakeItRain]

ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.

[sys]

this year is a soft bubble, with the pac 10 and acc likely occupying many fewer spots than normal and the big east not looking take those spots.  kstate could certainly fall to the wrong side of the bubble, but it looks like a pretty easy year to get in.  years like this make me really sad for c. martin, hoskins, harris et. al.

[MakeItRain]

this year is a soft bubble, with the pac 10 and acc likely occupying many fewer spots than normal and the big east not looking take those spots.  kstate could certainly fall to the wrong side of the bubble, but it looks like a pretty easy year to get in.  years like this make me really sad for c. martin, hoskins, harris et. al.

That '06-'07 team was really hurt by a bad Big 12.  Their RPI was only 60 and they had one top 50 win and 3 top 100 wins and some garbage losses, Colorado State and Nebraska.  That team was much better than this one, but c'est la vie.

[catzacker]

a "soft bubble" only means that there are a lot of average teams like KSU for the selection committee to choose from.  our OOC record/schedule could be our savior, but that's only if Bama and LB St. continue to be the paper tigers they are.  Really needed jones to miss that 3.

[kougar24]

That WVU loss still grinds my gears.

[ChiComCat]

ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.

I know where you're coming from and I know the committee has never mentioned conference finish.  That said, if there is a big gap in standings, I find it hard to believe some members won't see it as a cut off, whether they cop to it or not.  Agree to disagree I guess.  They say there is value on neutral and away wins, but the 06-07's 3 best wins came neutral or on the road and they got left out (granted, there weren't really any other wins of substance).  The committee talks out its ass a lot of times, is what I'm saying.

[gatoveintisiete]

When it comes down to the nut cutting, sometimes a name means something, before we didn't have it, now k-state and Martin means more.

[MakeItRain]

ChiCat, you are incorporating things the committee don't and can't look at.  I don't want to be mean but the things they look for when selecting teams are well documented and I've never heard any of the talking points that you're bringing up.  What the criteria is isn't really up for debate, how the criteria is applied to the last 3 or 4 teams is what the inevitable debate is.

I know where you're coming from and I know the committee has never mentioned conference finish.  That said, if there is a big gap in standings, I find it hard to believe some members won't see it as a cut off, whether they cop to it or not.  Agree to disagree I guess.  They say there is value on neutral and away wins, but the 06-07's 3 best wins came neutral or on the road and they got left out (granted, there weren't really any other wins of substance).  The committee talks out its ass a lot of times, is what I'm saying.

If there's a big gap between 4th & 5th the 5th place team will be below .500

[Stevesie60]

That WVU loss still grinds my gears.

Of all of our close losses, that's the one that grinds your gears?