Job Killers hurt the economy

[LickNeckey]

http://news.yahoo.com/alabama-immigration-crackdown-costs-state-11-bln-study-155547677.html

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

http://news.yahoo.com/alabama-immigration-crackdown-costs-state-11-bln-study-155547677.html

Hmmm.

80,000 illegals left the state, but there are, at least, 180,000 collecting unemployment and 44,000 collecting welfare of some type.  Why is Obama suing the state forcing them to spend hundreds of millions?

[LickNeckey]

wut?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

wut?

80,000 illegals left Alabama, but there are, at least, 180,000 people in Alabama collecting unemployment and 44,000 in Alabama collecting welfare of some type. What is the problem?

[LickNeckey]

these Americans?   

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-20123545/few-americans-take-immigrants-jobs-in-alabama/

[sys]

wut?

80,000 illegals left Alabama, but there are, at least, 180,000 people in Alabama collecting unemployment and 44,000 in Alabama collecting welfare of some type. What is the problem?

problem = difficult jobs that don't pay enough to live a decent life in america, amercians understandably don't want those jobs, impossible for alabama employers to raise wages to attract native talent and pass cost to consumer because they compete with out of state businesses.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

wut?

80,000 illegals left Alabama, but there are, at least, 180,000 people in Alabama collecting unemployment and 44,000 in Alabama collecting welfare of some type. What is the problem?

problem = difficult jobs that don't pay enough to live a decent life in america, amercians understandably don't want those jobs, impossible for alabama employers to raise wages to attract native talent and pass cost to consumer because they compete with out of state businesses.

This is why the federal government needs to take the lead in solving the problem.  National e-verify.  Costs to consumers will increase, but so will most wages for the lower working class. These are not the types of jobs that will be sent overseas.

[sys]

This is why the federal government needs to take the lead in solving the problem.  National e-verify.

yes, agree.  open borders and closed employment.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

This is why the federal government needs to take the lead in solving the problem.  National e-verify.

yes, agree.  open borders and closed employment.

no

[Rage Against the McKee]

This is why the federal government needs to take the lead in solving the problem.  National e-verify.

yes, agree.  open borders and closed employment.

I also agree. We should offer citizenship to anybody who is willing to come here and work, then make it impossible for illegal immigrants to work in the US.

[sys]

We should offer citizenship to anybody who is willing to come here and work.

no, just work visas.  citizenship only when reciprocal and/or advantageous.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

This is why the federal government needs to take the lead in solving the problem.  National e-verify.

yes, agree.  open borders and closed employment.

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

[sys]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

I guess I should have asked what your definition of  "open borders" is.

don't make it hard to impossible for would be tourists, students and long-term visitors to get visas or even have to get visas at all.  if they want to come here, great.  they just can't get a job (at least not an over-the-table job).

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

Manual labor jobs are what we need filled. Why should they be required to offer more than that?

Because we are handing out taxpayer money to citizens sitting on their asses that can fill those jobs. If they are making more sitting on their asses, we need to change that. I would be willing to raise the minimum wage over time if it meant phasing out all welfare except for physically and mentally handicapped.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Stop paying exorbitant welfare and those jobs become a lot more attractive to american "workers". 

You can't have it both ways.  The Free Market is real and so is opportunity cost.  It's not a phenomenon invented by the republican party.  The Alabama law fell short because it only took care of half the problem.

I also question the veracity of that article.  I do not believe that there were 80,000 workers in Alabama who were 1) all illegal, and 2) too scared to stay in a state because of a law that 3) they probably didn't know existed. 

[sys]

I do not believe that there were 80,000 workers in Alabama who were 1) all illegal, and 2) too scared to stay in a state because of a law that 3) they probably didn't know existed. 

you are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant or crazy.  possibly all three.

[sys]

I would agree with most of that, but would definitely want, at minimum, a criminal background check to get a long term and work visa, and, like you mentioned, more to offer than manual labor. I also think if you want to work here, you should need to apply for citizenship within a certain amount of time, like within a year or two.

disagree with the citizenship thing.  we don't need more citizens.  give me your tired, you poor, your huddled masses was a different age.  there is no reason we can't provide people with a means to fill labor needs without offering citizenship.  certainly not obliging them towards citizenship whether they want it or not.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I do not believe that there were 80,000 workers in Alabama who were 1) all illegal, and 2) too scared to stay in a state because of a law that 3) they probably didn't know existed. 

you are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant or crazy.  possibly all three.

wrong

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I do not believe that there were 80,000 workers in Alabama who were 1) all illegal, and 2) too scared to stay in a state because of a law that 3) they probably didn't know existed. 

you are Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant or crazy.  possibly all three.

Those 80,000 people represents about 1.5% of the population of Alabama.  They are likely some of the poorest people in the state and "being illegal" probably don't pay income tax .  Yet somehow, their departure constitutes:

The lost jobs also cost Alabama up to $264.5 million in lost state sales and income taxes

which is over 5% of the revenues reported by the AL Dept Rev. for those same taxes.  Hmmmmm

Also there's this:

There are an estimated 11.2 million illegal immigrants in the United States, including between 75,000 and 160,000 in Alabama, according to the Pew Hispanic Center.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/12/us-alabama-immigration-idUSTRE79B7GO20111012

Amazingly, the student population of hispanics didn't dip by 50-107%!!!  How can that be?

 

Am I the only one who has access to google on this board?  Seriously, do these people even check the work they've done?  It's totally rough ridin' ignorant to just believe everything you read without spending 3 minutes figuring out if its plausible.  To think that there are 80,000 illegal alien migrant worker who left alabama, which would represent not less than 1 out  2 of the total number of illegal aliens (mirgrant worker or otherwise), because of a card check law, is totally ignorant, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and crazy.

Just because your mom teaches econ, doesn't give you carte blanche to be an elitist ignorant prick in the Pit.  It takes effort to earn that right.  Go away.

[sys]

the vast majority of illegal immigrants work with fake papers, so they pay taxes.

the reuters article gives some of the assumptions built into the study, you picking random googled numbers that differ from the researchers assumptions is hardly a convincing argument that you have a better handle on the true numbers of workers and jobs involved than does the researcher.  furthermore, the study provided a estimated range of econ impact.  you strawmanning the high estimate is a poor argument at best, disingenuous at worst.


my original comment was w. regard to your statement that the illegals wouldn't know the law existed, btw.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

the vast majority of illegal immigrants work with fake papers, so they pay taxes.

the reuters article gives some of the assumptions built into the study, you picking random googled numbers that differ from the researchers assumptions is hardly a convincing argument that you have a better handle on the true numbers of workers and jobs involved than does the researcher.  furthermore, the study provided a estimated range of econ impact.  you strawmanning the high estimate is a poor argument at best, disingenuous at worst.


my original comment was w. regard to your statement that the illegals wouldn't know the law existed, btw.

I pulled the numbers directly from the article.  Then took the only available numbers I found from a source that is likely to overestimate the numbers.  There is no straw man (you clearly don't know what that term means).  If the "study" includes such unfeasible numbers in it's "range" it's probably a shitty study, or a study with a political agenda and necessarily a non-scientific shitty survey.

Your nitpicking at my 5 minutes of research, which pointed out how flawed the "study" appears to be, rather than refuting any of it with your own facts and evidence, is quite demonstrative of how bad your ignorant, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and crazy ass got pwn3d in this thread.

Buh-Bye.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Coincidentally, Alabama has the lowest unemployment rate of the 8 "southeastern states"

ALABAMA    8.1
TENNESSEE    8.7
KENTUCKY    9.1
SOUTH CAROLINA    9.5
GEORGIA    9.7
FLORIDA    9.9
NORTH CAROLINA    9.9
MISSISSIPPI    10.4

Assuming the BL is telling the truth
http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

[sys]

Your nitpicking at my 5 minutes of research, which pointed out how flawed the "study" appears to be, rather than refuting any of it with your own facts and evidence, is quite demonstrative of how bad your ignorant, Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) and crazy ass got pwn3d in this thread.

Buh-Bye.

i nitpicked to humor you (though i stand by those picks and lol @ your error on strawman).  as i said, i called you Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), ignorant and crazy for your statement about what the immigrants would have known about the law.  i should have added racist, but i didn't want to be anyone's cliche but my own.