How many years should Frank be allowed to not meet expectations?

[CHONGS]

Of course the devil is in what a reasonable expectation is.

One could make the case that K-State has not met expectations 3 out of the 5 years Frank has coached.

[puniraptor]

Can't you just make a reasonable expectations program?

[wetwillie]

Making the tournament is the expectation. Anything else is just unreasonable.

[puniraptor]

Making the tournament is the expectation. Anything else is just unreasonable.

This sounds fair. I also expect to be entertained.

[sys]

expectations are that he be as good as anyone kstate could expect to hire.  number of years he should be allowed to not meet is = to number of years he has exceeded + 1.


chingon, stop playing like this.  our fans cannot handle it.

[kso_FAN]

chingon, stop playing like this.  our fans cannot handle it.

Yes, what the heck?

[SoonerHoopsfan]

[DQ12]

My expectation is that we make the tournament every year.

[0.42]

My expectation is that we make the tournament every year.

yes

[kso_FAN]

My expectation is that we make the tournament every year.

This is mine as well, though I can live with an NIT every once in a while. There just shouldn't be .500 seasons (or worse) with no postseason. There shouldn't be Big 12 seasons much worse than .500 and most should be over .500. Once in a while be in the conversation for a league title, and finish in the upper 1/3 the majority of the time. Most of all have teams that compete night in and night out, on the road or at home. So far for the most part Frank has given that.

[nicname]

I formed my expectation midway through last season. NCAA at least 3 out of every 4 years with one strong 1-4 seed team, and at least two middling teams 5-9 type teams.  Yes, that is just what we did in Frank's first 4 years but it is a good barometer, especially because Frank set that bar for himself.  

Looking at it another way just taking the average seeds of the two groups you get

1 year of  a 2.5 avg - basically a top ten team at worst.

2 years of a 7 seed average basically a fringe top 25 team at worst.

1 year of bubblish/ NIT bball.  

I could pretty much live with that.

[sys]

There just shouldn't be .500 seasons (or worse) with no postseason. There shouldn't be Big 12 seasons much worse than .500 and most should be over .500.

why not?  what advantages does kstate have over other big 12 schools that we should expect to beat them more often than not?

[kso_FAN]

There just shouldn't be .500 seasons (or worse) with no postseason. There shouldn't be Big 12 seasons much worse than .500 and most should be over .500.

why not?  what advantages does kstate have over other big 12 schools that we should expect to beat them more often than not?

Frank.

He's .500 on the road in Big 12 games for his career. His worst conference road record is 3-5. Granted, he's "only" 72% at home in Big 12 games and seemingly has a head scratching loss like we did to OU every season, but he's set the standard for himself in league games by winning over 60% so far in his career. So my expectation is that a bad year is at worst going to be 8-10 in the current Big 12 format.

[sys]

but the thread is with regard to martin not meeting expectations.  you can't fire martin for not capitalizing on the advantage that he provides.

[felix rex]

expectations are that he be as good as anyone kstate could expect to hire. 

This is dangerous talk.

[michigancat]

you can't fire martin for not capitalizing on the advantage that he provides.

whoa!

[kso_FAN]

but the thread is with regard to martin not meeting expectations.  you can't fire martin for not capitalizing on the advantage that he provides.

I was only talking about my expectations and where they are based, not based on whatever Ching was trying to do with this thread.

[Kat Kid]

so this is what happens without Peggy Po's/Nancy Neg's.

Lawlessness and blasphemy.  Well, I can't say I'm surprised.  Back to the righteous board with PW.

[kso_FAN]

so this is what happens without Peggy Po's/Nancy Neg's.

Lawlessness and blasphemy.  Well, I can't say I'm surprised.  Back to the righteous board with PW.

Yeah.

I always knew the fans would turn quickly on Frank if he struggled... but man.

[mcmwcat]

so this is what happens without Peggy Po's/Nancy Neg's.

 

[slimz]

so this is what happens without Peggy Po's/Nancy Neg's.

Lawlessness and blasphemy.  Well, I can't say I'm surprised.  Back to the righteous board with PW.

Yeah.

I always knew the fans would turn quickly on Frank if he struggled... but man.

Frank's set himself up for that with his Franking. When you demand a lot from your players, take them to task in a very public and forceful manner, and run a couple of them off every year, you've created a low-margin-for-error environment, and a lot of the fans are going to apply the same standards in evaluating the coaching performance.

So far, Frank, like many of his players (and in large part because of his players), has righted the ship in time to have successful seasons. A couple of them have exceeded expectations, a couple of them have been a bit disappointing while still successful. However, the thin margin he seems to give players is going to bounce back on him immediately by a lot of the fanbase when he has his first sub-par season (or heck, stretch, as we've seen the last couple of Januarys).

That's not a criticism of Frank. I'm not even saying that it's an equal or appropriate way to judge Frank's performance. It's just what I think is playing into the reaction.

[CNS]

My expectation is that we make the tournament every year.

This is mine as well, though I can live with an NIT every once in a while. There just shouldn't be .500 seasons (or worse) with no postseason. There shouldn't be Big 12 seasons much worse than .500 and most should be over .500. Once in a while be in the conversation for a league title, and finish in the upper 1/3 the majority of the time. Most of all have teams that compete night in and night out, on the road or at home. So far for the most part Frank has given that.

This will keep drama and drama will keep butts in seats.

Yes please

[wabash909]

Frank is a very good coach, that may become a great coach at some point.  Is he a championship caliber coach? Quite possibly not.

I guess I try to keep things in perspective when comparing what this program has become under Frank, compared to the 20 years of ridiculously embarrassing basketball that buried us under Altman, Asbury, Wooldridge after Kruger abandoned the program and left us to die.  We shouldn’t forget it.

I like our hardnosed junkyard style.  I like winning games on the road in conference.  I like consistently finishing in the top half of the league.  I like beating KU on our home court on a semi-regular basis.  I like seeing 5,000 students sandstorming their asses off in the student section and sellouts for most every game.  I like being a consistent fixture in the Top 25 and relevant on the landscape of college basketball.  I like going to the post season every year, even if in some years that means the NIT.  

None of that was in place for the vast majority of the past two decades until Frank arrived.  Yeah, there's a lot that is frustrating, but most of that is because our expectations are back to where they should be a K-State.  We expect to win again, and all in all he’s done a pretty damn good job as our head coach, IMO.

[WillieWatanabe]

^ I agree.

[kso_FAN]

Frank is a very good coach, that may become a great coach at some point.  Is he a championship caliber coach? Quite possibly not.

I guess I try to keep things in perspective when comparing what this program has become under Frank, compared to the 20 years of ridiculously embarrassing basketball under Altman, Asbury, Wooldridge after Kruger abandoned the program and left us high and dry.  We shouldn’t forget it.

I like our hardnosed junkyard style.  I like winning games on the road in conference.  I like consistently finishing in the top half of the league.  I like beating KU on our home court on a semi-regular basis.  I like seeing 5,000 students sandstorming their asses off in the student section and sellouts for most every game.  I like being a consistent fixture in the Top 25 and relevant on the landscape of college basketball.  I like going to the post season every year, even if in some years that means the NIT. 

None of that was in place for the vast majority of the past two decades until Frank arrived.  Yeah, there's a lot that is frustrating, but most of that is because our expectations are back to where they should be a K-State.  We expect to win again, and all in all he’s done a pretty damn good job as our head coach, IMO.

Thank you.